Obama goes for a twofer

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shags
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Obama goes for a twofer

Post by shags » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:01 pm

He can simultaneously hinder small business and jack up his gun control agenda.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminite ... 507d9b6642

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:55 pm

shags wrote:He can simultaneously hinder small business and jack up his gun control agenda.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminite ... 507d9b6642
Here's another perspective. "Don't jump out the window."

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/08/recent- ... z4GyEvssal
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by gundogguy » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:38 am

Obama's actual contributions to this country are few, yet He and the regressive Liberals are the best darn gun salesmen we have ever seen!
I'm 100% in favor of LGBT - Liberty, Guns, Bacon and Trump.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by oldbeek » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:39 pm

Another reason to VOTE TRUMP and every Republican. Liberals are going to kill our life style. Vote Democrat and you and your grand kids can sit on your butt and play video games. Lots of memories there.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:45 pm

Video games? You think there's a correlation between voting democratic and video games? Haha where'd you get that kool-aid?

I've never heard that before.
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by SetterNut » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:47 pm

Obama and Hillary seem to be sponsors of Occupy Wallstreet and BLM.
Not what I would consider the correct direction for the country.
Steve

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:54 pm

SetterNut wrote:Obama and Hillary seem to be sponsors of Occupy Wallstreet and BLM.
Not what I would consider the correct direction for the country.
Sponsors? In what capacity? What's your evidence for this?
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by oldbeek » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:12 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
shags wrote:He can simultaneously hinder small business and jack up his gun control agenda.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminite ... 507d9b6642
Here's another perspective. "Don't jump out the window."

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/08/recent- ... z4GyEvssal
Went back and read your article. I may have over reacted to your comment. Still here in California i am breaking one of their new laws because i own a rifle that i built out of a bare piece of american walnut, a german mouser action and a 270 caliber barrel. Gun control is INCREMENTAL. Voters may force me to get a background check to buy shotgun shells this November. The bill establishes a data base of every one that buys ammunition. Make me a criminal to bring shells home from an Arizona dog trial or hunting trip. I have had enough of this crap.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by oldbeek » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:21 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
SetterNut wrote:Obama and Hillary seem to be sponsors of Occupy Wallstreet and BLM.
Not what I would consider the correct direction for the country.
Sponsors? In what capacity? What's your evidence for this?
She had BLM mothers at her convention. What more proof do you need. She supports Sharpton who is a domestic terrorist. BLM is supporting criminals that get killed doing criminal behavior. My grand daughter in law who is black says Hillarys BLM support may backfire. Law and order, ( working blacks) want more police presents not less. She and her family are voting TRUMP.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by oldbeek » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:24 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Video games? You think there's a correlation between voting democratic and video games? Haha where'd you get that kool-aid?

I've never heard that before.
Ok, you all can sit on the couch and watch Al Sharpton on MSNBC. Lots of memories there.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:00 am

oldbeek wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:
shags wrote:He can simultaneously hinder small business and jack up his gun control agenda.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminite ... 507d9b6642
Here's another perspective. "Don't jump out the window."

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/08/recent- ... z4GyEvssal
Went back and read your article. I may have over reacted to your comment. Still here in California i am breaking one of their new laws because i own a rifle that i built out of a bare piece of american walnut, a german mouser action and a 270 caliber barrel. Gun control is INCREMENTAL. Voters may force me to get a background check to buy shotgun shells this November. The bill establishes a data base of every one that buys ammunition. Make me a criminal to bring shells home from an Arizona dog trial or hunting trip. I have had enough of this crap.
Your ammo comment is incorrect.

If you're in Arizona quite a bit, you can always use a foreign registered LLC, a Wyoming LLC with you listed as the manager and a confidential Wyoming LLC as the sole member, and have the LLC buy whatever firearm you want in Arizona. If you want a surpressor, buy it using the LLC and store it in an Arizona safety deposit box.

Normally, people would just set up a gun trust but nonresident guntrusts is a grey area as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, just in case you were interested.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:24 am

oldbeek wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:
SetterNut wrote:Obama and Hillary seem to be sponsors of Occupy Wallstreet and BLM.
Not what I would consider the correct direction for the country.
Sponsors? In what capacity? What's your evidence for this?
She had BLM mothers at her convention. What more proof do you need. She supports Sharpton who is a domestic terrorist. BLM is supporting criminals that get killed doing criminal behavior. My grand daughter in law who is black says Hillarys BLM support may backfire. Law and order, ( working blacks) want more police presents not less. She and her family are voting TRUMP.
She also had police families on the last night so what's your point.

Also, tell your grand daughter to stop with the strawman. Everyone, including BLM, wants more police presence. They just want it without the systemic racism and racial bias.

Working blacks don't want to be treated as criminals until proven, 100% without a doubt, innocent.

Working and professional minorities know that despite doing everything right and working hard to get ahead, they're just another __(fill in the minority group)__ criminal. It's humiliating and dehumanizing. They don't deserve it.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by shags » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:35 am

AAA Gundogs wrote: Also, tell your grand daughter to stop with the strawman. Everyone, including BLM, wants more police presence. They just want it without the systemic racism and racial bias.
Quotes from BLM -

"What do we want? "
"Dead cops!"
"When do we want them?"
"Now!"

"Pigs in a blanket! Fry 'em like bacon!"

No question that black urban communities are on the whole disadvantaged, but they need leadership that redirects awareness to what they can do to help themselves. The democrats have done nothing since Lyndon Johnson to do anything except to exacerbate poverty and hopelessness of our inner city minorities. Remember the Black mom in Baltimore who smacked her son around for being out protesting? She is a much greater leader than Sharpton or Jackson et al could ever be.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:04 am

shags wrote:
AAA Gundogs wrote: Also, tell your grand daughter to stop with the strawman. Everyone, including BLM, wants more police presence. They just want it without the systemic racism and racial bias.
Quotes from BLM -

"What do we want? "
"Dead cops!"
"When do we want them?"
"Now!"

"Pigs in a blanket! Fry 'em like bacon!"

No question that black urban communities are on the whole disadvantaged, but they need leadership that redirects awareness to what they can do to help themselves. The democrats have done nothing since Lyndon Johnson to do anything except to exacerbate poverty and hopelessness of our inner city minorities. Remember the Black mom in Baltimore who smacked her son around for being out protesting? She is a much greater leader than Sharpton or Jackson et al could ever be.
I'm not saying it's right, but as a whole, the black community has a reason to distrust cops, so I understand their frustration. And BLM is trying to do things to help themselves. But they can't change systemic racist... That's a task that everybody must take on through careful consideration of how the systems we have, laws we make, and attitudes we harbor affect minorities.

And oldbeek, the point isn't whether or not they are criminals that are killed... The point is they are killed much quicker than white people in a similar circumstance, and the escalation of violence is much faster.
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by ckirsch » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:44 am

So you're telling us that in the recent Milwaukee incident, the career criminal who had run from police, then pointed a stolen firearm at the officer, and was subsequently shot and killed by the officer, who happened to be black, would not have been shot had he a lighter complexion?

How about the Ferguson incident, where the media's "gentle giant", who had just finished assaulting and robbing a minority store owner, and then assaulted a police officer and attempted to take his weapon? Would that officer have surrendered his gun and patted the guy on the back if he'd been white? The "Hands Up Don't Shoot" lie continues to be recited in that case, but the media refuses to point that out.

Baltimore; six cops charged with the murder of Freddie Grey. Four of those cops were black. All were found innocent by courts of their peers, unfortunately after the black mayor had awarded Grey's family with a seven million dollar settlement. Had a white guy broken his own neck while smashing his head against the wall of the police van, none of us would have ever heard about it.

The original Trayvon Martin case; a young thug killed by a Hispanic man in self defense, yet the media (and our president) had the guy convicted within hours of the event. Once again, he was later deemed innocent by a court of his peers.

I won't tell you that racism doesn't exist, but I will tell you it flows in both directions, and to my mind much more freely from the other side. There are far, far more cases of whites being murdered by minorities than the other way around, yet when have you seen riots, calls for cities to be burned down, or police officers murdered as a result? There have clearly been isolated cases where individual police officers clearly needlessly shot and killed citizens of all colors, but to claim that law enforcement has a widespread, systemic problem with murdering innocent minorities is reckless and irresponsible. That campaign is getting innocent cops shot in the back for doing nothing other than sitting in their patrol cars.

Please don't tell us that Obama has improved race relations? They've never been worse.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by MNTonester » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:04 am

The point is they are killed much quicker than white people in a similar circumstance,
REALLY?! You're one always wanting citations and proof. Well, prove your assertion (and Huffington Post/DNC is not a valid source BTW)

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:17 am

shags wrote:
AAA Gundogs wrote: Also, tell your grand daughter to stop with the strawman. Everyone, including BLM, wants more police presence. They just want it without the systemic racism and racial bias.
Quotes from BLM -

"What do we want? "
"Dead cops!"
"When do we want them?"
"Now!"

"Pigs in a blanket! Fry 'em like bacon!"
.
Those are BLM quotes? From where?

Random black people don't represent BLM just as I wouldn't assume that random White people, yelling racial epithets and assaulting Black people at Trump rallies, or David Duke is representative of the whole.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:25 am

ckirsch wrote: I won't tell you that racism doesn't exist, but I will tell you it flows in both directions, and to my mind much more freely from the other side. There are far, far more cases of whites being murdered by minorities than the other way around, yet when have you seen riots, calls for cities to be burned down, or police officers murdered as a result? There have clearly been isolated cases where individual police officers clearly needlessly shot and killed citizens of all colors, but to claim that law enforcement has a widespread, systemic problem with murdering innocent minorities is reckless and irresponsible. That campaign is getting innocent cops shot in the back for doing nothing other than sitting in their patrol cars.
I'm not saying it's just law-enforcement. I'm widespread system racism exists in all parts of our government and our country.

But to address the portion in bold, because this is a common misconception. Racism can only be experienced by a minority group, not a majority group. Now, white people sure can experience discrimination, but not racism as it's defined in contemporary times. The reason is that the majority group is the group in power, hence they do not create policy to discriminate against themselves. But I doubt you'll take the time to contemplate this, so I'm not really telling you. I'm just clearing it up for others willing to consider it.
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:27 am

MNTonester wrote:
The point is they are killed much quicker than white people in a similar circumstance,
REALLY?! You're one always wanting citations and proof. Well, prove your assertion (and Huffington Post/DNC is not a valid source BTW)
Would you really read any study or source I provide? Have you read any of the links I've posted? Or watched any videos?
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:28 am

MNTonester wrote:
The point is they are killed much quicker than white people in a similar circumstance,
REALLY?! You're one always wanting citations and proof. Well, prove your assertion (and Huffington Post/DNC is not a valid source BTW)
There have been plenty of peer reviewed published articles focusing on various aspects of how, because of implicit racism, African Americans, who.commit the exact same infractions as their white counterparts, are subject to harsher discipline at every level from being suspended and expelled in school to in the courtroom during sentencing to on the street with cops.

Denying that it exists is like denying the earth is round. The question that remains is do those that are not directly effected care and, from this board's response, I'd say that most not only don't care, they deny it's existence.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by DougB » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:34 am

In Milwaukee, the white population is about 44%, the black is about 40%. Whites are just the largest minority. Minorities, working together, could run the town.
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by Timewise65 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:43 am

mnaj_springer wrote:Video games? You think there's a correlation between voting democratic and video games? Haha where'd you get that kool-aid?

I've never heard that before.
So MS....did you really not 'get it'?.....if you lose your rights to own guns and hunting....many will not have much left to do with spare time, so the video game comes into play! Did I spell that out simple enough for you? Got it?

Problem is if Hillary gets in, those of us that are retired will have to go back to work and will have no time for guns or games....anyone that has studied her economic plans, know she desires to further the socialization of our country....your social security will be her first target, then on to higher taxes for the middle class (she said that recently)....and if you have some money put away for retirement, she will tax the heck out of it....including your 401k if you have one.....Yea, she really is a good candidate....because she will do all of this while telling you she is doing something completely different! That's' because she lies, about most everything!

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by shags » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:51 am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xet3BnwLtek

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hqQXmnMr_w8


If you doubt these, go back and plug in 'black lives matter protest' to the youtube search, and choose choose other ones. There are dozens.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by shags » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:53 am

Here's another one that shows what BLM is all about. it's longer, but worth a listen.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gI9MCvK2MGs

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:48 am

Shags,

You have the habit of attributing the voices of a few to the many. At best, it's a folly of ignorance.

Or should we just attribute the voices of the few, who've been recorded spewing racist epithets at Trump rallies, to all Trump supporters including all of you here?

Is that what you're about since you support Trump?

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:01 pm

DougB wrote:In Milwaukee, the white population is about 44%, the black is about 40%. Whites are just the largest minority. Minorities, working together, could run the town.
Who knew that Milwaukee was the most racially segregated metro area, according to Business Insider, in the United States?

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by ckirsch » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:47 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Racism can only be experienced by a minority group, not a majority group.
Ah, the arrogance of liberals. You're so full of yourself that you're convinced you can dictate the definition of a word. When I pull up the term "racism", I find it defined as "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race." Pretty simple. If you judge someone by the color of their skin, you're an azz, regardless of your own complexion. For the record, I grew up on an Indian reservation where my race represented around fifteen percent of the population, so by your standards, I was a "victim" of racism then. While the vast majority of our Native neighbors were cordial, friendly, and honest people, there was a sizable contingency that made it known they didn't have much use for us. Our home and business were repeatedly burglarized. We even experienced several drive-by shootings. My ten-year-old brother and a cousin the same age were pulled off of their bicycles and beaten by two Native adults for having the audacity to ride on "Indian land". Oddly enough, we never burned any buildings down, shot any law enforcement officers, or conducted any riots.

There are clearly individuals on both sides of the fence who are racist, thus there's still work to be done, but when an organization like BLM spews equally, if not exceedingly hateful behavior, it's counterproductive. Given that the organization is based on the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" lie, it has zero credibility with anyone outside of the lunatic far-left fringe. It's not "random" individuals who call for violence and the murder of police; those are consistent mantras at events organized by BLM. My guess is that the majority of blacks are ashamed at the group's extremist antics, understanding that the organization is doing far more harm than good. When the evidence proves that a police officer makes an unjustifiable shooting, they need to be subjected to the same penalties any of us would, but currently any officer involved in an incident with a minority is being convicted by the media (and our president, the governor of Minnesota, and other political figures) before any due process is allowed. That is not only irresponsible and unjust, but inflames racial animosity and has obviously led to the murders of innocent police officers.

AAA, there are also countless peer-reviewed studies establishing the frequency of black-on-white crimes to be many, many times higher than the reverse. You apparently deny that, so it would appear that your earth is somewhat flat as well. You may occasionally even be mouth breathing. Obamacare will cover that. Get it looked at.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:07 pm

ckirsch wrote: AAA, there are also countless peer-reviewed studies establishing the frequency of black-on-white crimes to be many, many times higher than the reverse. You apparently deny that, so it would appear that your earth is somewhat flat as well. You may occasionally even be mouth breathing. Obamacare will cover that. Get it looked at.
I've never discussed any black on black, black on white, or white on black crime because none of it has anything to do with the blm movement or the effects on institutional, systematic and implicit racism or conformational bias. So to be frank, i don't ever remember discussing what you claimed above or ever having espoused a position on it let alone the one your claiming.

Could you direct me to it?

Thanks.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by ckirsch » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:22 pm

AAA Gundogs wrote:There have been plenty of peer reviewed published articles focusing on various aspects of how, because of implicit racism, African Americans, who.commit the exact same infractions as their white counterparts, are subject to harsher discipline at every level from being suspended and expelled in school to in the courtroom during sentencing to on the street with cops.

Denying that it exists is like denying the earth is round. The question that remains is do those that are not directly effected care and, from this board's response, I'd say that most not only don't care, they deny it's existence.
Seems quite simple to me. If you need to be directed to the relevance, you're beyond any help that I might be able to provide.

I wish you the best of luck.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:59 pm

ckirsch wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Racism can only be experienced by a minority group, not a majority group.
Ah, the arrogance of liberals. You're so full of yourself that you're convinced you can dictate the definition of a word. When I pull up the term "racism", I find it defined as "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race." Pretty simple. If you judge someone by the color of their skin, you're an azz, regardless of your own complexion. For the record, I grew up on an Indian reservation where my race represented around fifteen percent of the population, so by your standards, I was a "victim" of racism then. While the vast majority of our Native neighbors were cordial, friendly, and honest people, there was a sizable contingency that made it known they didn't have much use for us. Our home and business were repeatedly burglarized. We even experienced several drive-by shootings. My ten-year-old brother and a cousin the same age were pulled off of their bicycles and beaten by two Native adults for having the audacity to ride on "Indian land". Oddly enough, we never burned any buildings down, shot any law enforcement officers, or conducted any riots.

There are clearly individuals on both sides of the fence who are racist, thus there's still work to be done, but when an organization like BLM spews equally, if not exceedingly hateful behavior, it's counterproductive. Given that the organization is based on the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" lie, it has zero credibility with anyone outside of the lunatic far-left fringe. It's not "random" individuals who call for violence and the murder of police; those are consistent mantras at events organized by BLM. My guess is that the majority of blacks are ashamed at the group's extremist antics, understanding that the organization is doing far more harm than good. When the evidence proves that a police officer makes an unjustifiable shooting, they need to be subjected to the same penalties any of us would, but currently any officer involved in an incident with a minority is being convicted by the media (and our president, the governor of Minnesota, and other political figures) before any due process is allowed. That is not only irresponsible and unjust, but inflames racial animosity and has obviously led to the murders of innocent police officers.

AAA, there are also countless peer-reviewed studies establishing the frequency of black-on-white crimes to be many, many times higher than the reverse. You apparently deny that, so it would appear that your earth is somewhat flat as well. You may occasionally even be mouth breathing. Obamacare will cover that. Get it looked at.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

Read up. And before you say "Wikipedia is not a source blah blah blah" check the cited sources they use. Many are peer-reviewed, academic journals.
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:35 pm

ckirsch wrote:
AAA Gundogs wrote:There have been plenty of peer reviewed published articles focusing on various aspects of how, because of implicit racism, African Americans, who.commit the exact same infractions as their white counterparts, are subject to harsher discipline at every level from being suspended and expelled in school to in the courtroom during sentencing to on the street with cops.

Denying that it exists is like denying the earth is round. The question that remains is do those that are not directly effected care and, from this board's response, I'd say that most not only don't care, they deny it's existence.
Seems quite simple to me. If you need to be directed to the relevance, you're beyond any help that I might be able to provide.

I wish you the best of luck.
I guess you're right and I'm a flat earther. Although the question is "Would you believe that anybody would try to use crime stats to not only justify implicit racism in the judicial system but seemingly advocate for explicit and instutional racism in sentencing?" I would never have believed it until your post so thank you for opening my eyes.

I prefer to punish crimes and reward merit based upon the actions of the individual without using their race as a multiplier.

Could you imagine the uproar if a company decided to determine salaries or bonuses based upon performance data along racial lines?

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by ckirsch » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:17 pm

AAA Gundogs wrote:"Would you believe that anybody would try to use crime stats to not only justify implicit racism in the judicial system but seemingly advocate for explicit and instutional racism in sentencing?" I would never have believed it until your post so thank you for opening my eyes.

Typical liberal response. Anything you don't agree with is immediately declared racist or sexist. Did you miss the part about anyone judging another by the color of their skin being an azz? I clearly stated that racism exists, and needs to be corrected, but that it flows in both directions. That elicited the incredible comment from your cohort that it's impossible for whites to experience racism. Have to call bullshit on that.

I prefer to punish crimes and reward merit based upon the actions of the individual without using their race as a multiplier.

I agree wholeheartedly. I also agree that entrance to universities and acceptance for various jobs should never factor race as a multiplier. I'm sure you're on board with that?

Could you imagine the uproar if a company decided to determine salaries or bonuses based upon performance data along racial lines?
Please point out where anyone on this thread has advocated that. I brought up the crime stats because they are very relevant to the conversation. When a white commits a crime against a minority, it's very often labeled a "hate" crime, as racial prejudice is considered the only possible motivation for that crime. If that's the case, should the same not be assumed when the roles are reversed? Using liberal logic, that would clearly illustrate racism towards whites.

I have a black friend whom I've known for over thirty years. If he and I went into a restaurant and were each treated poorly by a white waiter, I'd call it shitty service, while he'd be convinced that the waiter had to be racist. We've discussed this over the years, and have never been able to resolve it. I've agreed that he has undoubtedly experienced actual racism in his life, and that has led him to believe the only reason he could receive less than stellar treatment from a white is due to his being black. That's unfortunate, because that's typically not the case. Sometimes people are just a-holes, and those folks come in all colors. No race holds a monopoly on racism. I believe MLK told us to judge one another by the content of our character rather than the color of our skin. I guess I was under the assumption that went for all of us.

I'll reiterate for you, in case you're still confused. Racism is wrong, regardless of which direction it comes from.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:58 pm

ckirsch wrote:
AAA Gundogs wrote:"Would you believe that anybody would try to use crime stats to not only justify implicit racism in the judicial system but seemingly advocate for explicit and instutional racism in sentencing?" I would never have believed it until your post so thank you for opening my eyes.

Typical liberal response. Anything you don't agree with is immediately declared racist or sexist. Did you miss the part about anyone judging another by the color of their skin being an azz? I clearly stated that racism exists, and needs to be corrected, but that it flows in both directions. That elicited the incredible comment from your cohort that it's impossible for whites to experience racism. Have to call bullshit on that.

I prefer to punish crimes and reward merit based upon the actions of the individual without using their race as a multiplier.

I agree wholeheartedly. I also agree that entrance to universities and acceptance for various jobs should never factor race as a multiplier. I'm sure you're on board with that?

Could you imagine the uproar if a company decided to determine salaries or bonuses based upon performance data along racial lines?
Please point out where anyone on this thread has advocated that. I brought up the crime stats because they are very relevant to the conversation. When a white commits a crime against a minority, it's very often labeled a "hate" crime, as racial prejudice is considered the only possible motivation for that crime. If that's the case, should the same not be assumed when the roles are reversed? Using liberal logic, that would clearly illustrate racism towards whites.

I have a black friend whom I've known for over thirty years. If he and I went into a restaurant and were each treated poorly by a white waiter, I'd call it shitty service, while he'd be convinced that the waiter had to be racist. We've discussed this over the years, and have never been able to resolve it. I've agreed that he has undoubtedly experienced actual racism in his life, and that has led him to believe the only reason he could receive less than stellar treatment from a white is due to his being black. That's unfortunate, because that's typically not the case. Sometimes people are just a-holes, and those folks come in all colors. No race holds a monopoly on racism. I believe MLK told us to judge one another by the content of our character rather than the color of our skin. I guess I was under the assumption that went for all of us.

I'll reiterate for you, in case you're still confused. Racism is wrong, regardless of which direction it comes from.
The content I bolded is exactly the reason for BLM. Racism from cops has definitely happened, repeatedly. That has led to an extreme distrust, and from that distrust, anger. BLM is not some group meant to encourage cops die, but rather a group who has finally said "Enough!!"
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by DougB » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:28 am

I am going to put a verifiable fact in here:
According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks.
Another
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, the black arrest rate for robbery was 8.55 times higher than whites, and blacks were 16 times more likely to be incarcerated for robbery than non-Hispanic whites. Robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than the reverse.[43][44]
And a few more:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43
Arrests
by Race, 2013
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by DougB » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:40 am

I have problems with BLM. First, their choice of bodies to rally around needs more consideration. They tend to rally around people you would not really invite into your home. People who are breaking the law and resisting arrest, or illegally carrying, or need better training in CC.
Second, in Minneapolis when BLM started up, they had protests that had 2 or 3 hundred participants, half of them white (based on TV coverage). About 68000 blacks in the Minneapolis area. Only a few hundred participate. Response level is really low, especially for the amount of time they get on TV.

That being said, racism does exist. But not every event is racist. Poor people commit crimes more often than rich people do. Many black people are poor. Black people commit crimes.
Minneapolis police have a history of having violent officers. (some, not all), and a contract and laws that make it difficult to get rid of bad officers. Minneapolis has a gang war going on, with many armed gang bangers. It is described as "gun violence' but it is gang violence, and the cops do have to consider that. Some cops get carried away and should be fired, and steps are being taken to make that easier, but the cops fear of getting shot is based on reality.
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There's no doubt they're addictive, wherein lies the danger.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by ckirsch » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:08 am

mnaj_springer wrote: BLM is not some group meant to encourage cops die, but rather a group who has finally said "Enough!!"
For some odd reason, you've elected not to address the fact that the "Hands Up - Don't Shoot" slogan adopted after the Ferguson incident has been proven to be based on a lie. It never happened. You've ignored the fact that all of the LEO's involved with Freddy Gray were found innocent. You can't bring yourself to admit that Trayvon Martin's case, which started the whole thing, was also found to be justifiable. The most recent Wisconsin incident included a black officer shooting a black criminal who was aiming a gun at him. Perhaps you can explain the racial motivation in that case.

There are, without doubt, legitimate incidents of racism in law enforcement, as could be found with any other group. Unfortunately, too often situations are fabricated, which only erodes BLM's credibility. When LEOs are immediately convicted by politicians and the media without due process, only to be found innocent when the actual facts are made public, the result is dead cops. That cannot be argued.

Also thought it worth pointing out that whites constitute just 9% of the population of South Africa, yet that nation's apartheid era is considered, justifiably, as one of the most racist chapters in recent world history. You stated that it is impossible for racism be experienced by a majority. Explain that to the 83% of South Africans who happen to be black. Racism can indeed originate from the minority side, it's on display every day in this country, and it's no less insidious than when it comes from a majority.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:00 am

DougB wrote:I am going to put a verifiable fact in here:
According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks.
Another
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, the black arrest rate for robbery was 8.55 times higher than whites, and blacks were 16 times more likely to be incarcerated for robbery than non-Hispanic whites. Robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than the reverse.[43][44]
And a few more:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43
Arrests
by Race, 2013
We have to assume these figures are accurate but the thing that has been left out of all of these figures is who are committing the crimes. At first appearance these figures make it appear that blacks are being discriminated against but when the crime rates are included the Harvard studies show just the opposite. More whites are shot and killed than blacks when compared to numbers of encounters or arrests. Even many of the blacks are starting to speak up now and are trying to set their own people straight.
I agree we still need to improve but we also have to understand that there are few people who join law enforcement who do it so they can discriminate against anyone. It is still my contention if you don't want to be part of these statistics the stay out of situations that cause the problems and also stay out of the groups who are causing problems. In other words get an education , then a job, raise a family, teach your kids Christian values with words and actions, and the chances you will have any problems will be very very slim no matter what color you are.
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:25 pm

ckirsch wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote: BLM is not some group meant to encourage cops die, but rather a group who has finally said "Enough!!"
For some odd reason, you've elected not to address the fact that the "Hands Up - Don't Shoot" slogan adopted after the Ferguson incident has been proven to be based on a lie. It never happened. You've ignored the fact that all of the LEO's involved with Freddy Gray were found innocent. You can't bring yourself to admit that Trayvon Martin's case, which started the whole thing, was also found to be justifiable. The most recent Wisconsin incident included a black officer shooting a black criminal who was aiming a gun at him. Perhaps you can explain the racial motivation in that case.

There are, without doubt, legitimate incidents of racism in law enforcement, as could be found with any other group. Unfortunately, too often situations are fabricated, which only erodes BLM's credibility. When LEOs are immediately convicted by politicians and the media without due process, only to be found innocent when the actual facts are made public, the result is dead cops. That cannot be argued.

Also thought it worth pointing out that whites constitute just 9% of the population of South Africa, yet that nation's apartheid era is considered, justifiably, as one of the most racist chapters in recent world history. You stated that it is impossible for racism be experienced by a majority. Explain that to the 83% of South Africans who happen to be black. Racism can indeed originate from the minority side, it's on display every day in this country, and it's no less insidious than when it comes from a majority.
Racism = Racial Prejudice + Power

So if the minority race group holds all the power and they are prejudiced against the majority racial group, racism exists.

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:33 pm

AAA Gundogs wrote:
ckirsch wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote: BLM is not some group meant to encourage cops die, but rather a group who has finally said "Enough!!"
For some odd reason, you've elected not to address the fact that the "Hands Up - Don't Shoot" slogan adopted after the Ferguson incident has been proven to be based on a lie. It never happened. You've ignored the fact that all of the LEO's involved with Freddy Gray were found innocent. You can't bring yourself to admit that Trayvon Martin's case, which started the whole thing, was also found to be justifiable. The most recent Wisconsin incident included a black officer shooting a black criminal who was aiming a gun at him. Perhaps you can explain the racial motivation in that case.

There are, without doubt, legitimate incidents of racism in law enforcement, as could be found with any other group. Unfortunately, too often situations are fabricated, which only erodes BLM's credibility. When LEOs are immediately convicted by politicians and the media without due process, only to be found innocent when the actual facts are made public, the result is dead cops. That cannot be argued.

Also thought it worth pointing out that whites constitute just 9% of the population of South Africa, yet that nation's apartheid era is considered, justifiably, as one of the most racist chapters in recent world history. You stated that it is impossible for racism be experienced by a majority. Explain that to the 83% of South Africans who happen to be black. Racism can indeed originate from the minority side, it's on display every day in this country, and it's no less insidious than when it comes from a majority.
Racism = Racial Prejudice + Power

So if the minority race group holds all the power and they are prejudiced against the majority racial group, racism exists.
Correct. The majority group may not be the largest group, but they hold the power. Same thing happened in Rwanda with the Hutu and Tutsi. I apologize for not making that clear, as I made assumptions about knowledge when choosing my wording.

ckirsch, I previously talked about the Michael Brown shooting (in a different thread), so if you wonder about my opinion you can look. And I've ignored your other examples because those legal outcomes do not disprove that there is systemic racism within law enforcement.
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:58 pm

Racism = Racial Prejudice + Power

So if the minority race group holds all the power and they are prejudiced against the majority racial group, racism exists.


AAA is right. That definition of racism started with Jesse Jackson I believe and has been oft repeated by every black organization ever since. We have to keep repeating it if we are being fair to groups that think they are owed instead of making an effort to help themselves. This is why there is the large and growing split in the black community, those who make the effort by going to school and finding good jobs and the others that are still waiting for government handouts while protesting anything they can.

Have you ever wondered how all of the people in Baltimore, Ferguson, Milwaukee, and other places get off work, oh wait, I know the...................
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:15 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Racism = Racial Prejudice + Power

So if the minority race group holds all the power and they are prejudiced against the majority racial group, racism exists.


AAA is right. That definition of racism started with Jesse Jackson I believe and has been oft repeated by every black organization ever since. We have to keep repeating it if we are being fair to groups that think they are owed instead of making an effort to help themselves. This is why there is the large and growing split in the black community, those who make the effort by going to school and finding good jobs and the others that are still waiting for government handouts while protesting anything they can.

Have you ever wondered how all of the people in Baltimore, Ferguson, Milwaukee, and other places get off work, oh wait, I know the...................
Yes. Racism started with Jesse Jackson... Not anytime before that. Sure.
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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by AAA Gundogs » Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:29 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Racism = Racial Prejudice + Power

So if the minority race group holds all the power and they are prejudiced against the majority racial group, racism exists.


AAA is right. That definition of racism started with Jesse Jackson I believe and has been oft repeated by every black organization ever since. We have to keep repeating it if we are being fair to groups that think they are owed instead of making an effort to help themselves. This is why there is the large and growing split in the black community, those who make the effort by going to school and finding good jobs and the others that are still waiting for government handouts while protesting anything they can.

Have you ever wondered how all of the people in Baltimore, Ferguson, Milwaukee, and other places get off work, oh wait, I know the...................
Yes. Racism started with Jesse Jackson... Not anytime before that. Sure.
At this point, he just needs to stick to lying about me. At least then, he wouldn't come off like a bigot (eg. his last line). If it is important to people, they get time off. Or are we to assume that every person at a Trump rally during the work week is unemployed? How about voting during the work day? There must be a ton of unemployed people going to doctors, dentists, etc to keep them all in business. I guess everyone that hunts on a during the week opener must be unemployed too.

As for racism, without power, it's just words. My kids used to tell me "I hate you" all the time when I disciplined them. Wonderful, now go do what I said. You think black slaves loved white people?

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Re: Obama goes for a twofer

Post by cohanzick creek » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:52 am

You know that just out of line. I see this thread getting locked soon. You get challenge on racism than a name-calling starts. I can see you won't be around long.
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