Two Fine Men Gone

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Sharon
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Two Fine Men Gone

Post by Sharon » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:29 pm

I have good memories of Ali and Gordie Howe. Both great ambassadors for their sport. May they r.i.p.
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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by DonF » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:33 am

Great athlete's! I think where Ali really shined was when he refused to go in the service. Unlike so many protester's he did not leave the country and hide. He stood his ground, took his punishment and never cried about it.
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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by Soignie » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:36 am

Ali was a great fighter, but "took his punishment" I'd like to know how. At least the draft dodgers who left the country showed the strength of their convictions (to bad Carter allowed them to return). Ali made a fortune in a violent sport yet refused to serve his country because he converted to a "peaceful religion". Ali could have gone into the military as a conscientious objector as many Quakers have done through the years and served as a medical corpsman or he could have served entertaining troops as some celebrities have done in the past yet he made a fortune and enjoyed all the benefits of living in this great country which he refused to serve when he was called. God Bless Gordie Howe, he was not only a legendary athlete but he was a great human being.

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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by SubMariner » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:49 pm

Soignie wrote:Ali was a great fighter, but "took his punishment" I'd like to know how. At least the draft dodgers who left the country showed the strength of their convictions (to bad Carter allowed them to return). Ali made a fortune in a violent sport yet refused to serve his country because he converted to a "peaceful religion". Ali could have gone into the military as a conscientious objector as many Quakers have done through the years and served as a medical corpsman or he could have served entertaining troops as some celebrities have done in the past yet he made a fortune and enjoyed all the benefits of living in this great country which he refused to serve when he was called. God Bless Gordie Howe, he was not only a legendary athlete but he was a great human being.
Ali refused to serve in a war that has gone down as one of the worst mistakes the US ever made. He was stripped of his ability to earn a living (his boxing license) and banned from boxing from March 1967 to October 1970—from ages 25 to almost 29. So whether or not you believe in what he did, he did "take his punishment".

Gordie Howe AKA "Mr. Hockey" was a legend on both sides of the 49th parallel. The international bridge that is being built between the US & Canada over the Detroit River will bear his name. No one will touch some of his records. Even Wayne Gretzky looked up to him.
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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by nikegundog » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:15 pm

Soignie wrote:Ali was a great fighter, but "took his punishment" I'd like to know how. At least the draft dodgers who left the country showed the strength of their convictions (to bad Carter allowed them to return). Ali made a fortune in a violent sport yet refused to serve his country because he converted to a "peaceful religion". Ali could have gone into the military as a conscientious objector as many Quakers have done through the years and served as a medical corpsman or he could have served entertaining troops as some celebrities have done in the past yet he made a fortune and enjoyed all the benefits of living in this great country which he refused to serve when he was called. God Bless Gordie Howe, he was not only a legendary athlete but he was a great human being.
Well said, God bless Gordie Howe.

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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by ckirsch » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:47 pm

Slippery slope to have individuals decide whether or not a military conflict is worthy of their service when called, particularly without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Ali refused to serve while hundreds of thousands of others answered the call. As has been mentioned, he could have been a corpsman, entertained troops, or served in some other non-combat capacity.

He was clearly a great fighter, but I'm not sure he qualifies as a national treasure. He certainly fell far short of any veteran who served our country in combat.

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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by mask » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:21 am

ckirsch wrote:Slippery slope to have individuals decide whether or not a military conflict is worthy of their service when called, particularly without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Ali refused to serve while hundreds of thousands of others answered the call. As has been mentioned, he could have been a corpsman, entertained troops, or served in some other non-combat capacity.

He was clearly a great fighter, but I'm not sure he qualifies as a national treasure. He certainly fell far short of any veteran who served our country in combat.
+1 and well said. 90% of the nation doesn't even know why we were there in the first place. When people refused the draft someone took their place. How do you think the parents of those who served and were wounded of killed feel about those who took what some would consider a cowards way out?

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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by fishvik » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:27 pm

Two of my favorite athletes. Both gentleman out of the arena, but bulls in it. Both proved that you could be tough and physical in the game and a great person in society. "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" and a "Gordie Howe Hattrick" will long live in the sports lexicon.

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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by SubMariner » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:56 pm

mask wrote:
ckirsch wrote:Slippery slope to have individuals decide whether or not a military conflict is worthy of their service when called, particularly without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Ali refused to serve while hundreds of thousands of others answered the call. As has been mentioned, he could have been a corpsman, entertained troops, or served in some other non-combat capacity.

He was clearly a great fighter, but I'm not sure he qualifies as a national treasure. He certainly fell far short of any veteran who served our country in combat.
+1 and well said. 90% of the nation doesn't even know why we were there in the first place. When people refused the draft someone took their place. How do you think the parents of those who served and were wounded of killed feel about those who took what some would consider a cowards way out?
I don't think you can judge another because Person A was drafted and served while Person B was drafted and refused to serve because he didn't believe in that war. A "cowards" way out is when Daddy buys you a (fake) deferment.
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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by ckirsch » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:15 pm

Kennedy was first to insert troops there. Johnson further immersed us. I doubt that any of those who served in that war were particularly excited to be there. Their country called, and the vast majority answered the call.

You insult those who served and sacrificed in Viet Nam.

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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by mask » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:10 pm

I was there submariner were you?

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Re: Two Fine Men Gone

Post by SubMariner » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:19 pm

ckirsch wrote:Kennedy was first to insert troops there. Johnson further immersed us. I doubt that any of those who served in that war were particularly excited to be there. Their country called, and the vast majority answered the call.

You insult those who served and sacrificed in Viet Nam.
My comments neither glorify nor insult anyone who served in Vietnam.

They simply state my opinion regarding Mohammad Ali's right to refuse to serve in the armed forces during that conflict.
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