Our President Deserves an Award

[ezzy333]

I worked for a few years and have a retirement plan but it has no connection to a union.

[Bounty_Hunter]

Not the Internet itself laddybuck.....those who surf the Internet until they find info that can either be spun a number of directions at once or is of a measure that exists and is used simply because every point of view is up for publication to any number of choirs....and to any number of folks mindlessly repeating propaganda meant to manipulate those with a cocklebur for...something.

I suspect your knowledge of the Marcellus activity in the central Apps. is as agendized and flawed and personal and immature as are your thoughts on feeding....whatever or doing...whatever.
I also suspect that the so-thought knowledge is rather narrow in degree in particular, yet applied far too widely wherever you can post....just because you can.
Learning seems less of a call than simply being imagined as some front line soldier fighting the good fight against Big Ag, Big Oil or, Big...again, Whatever.

I will say that Pa. should go to a severance tax rather than their Impact tax......while the operative rig count has markedly decreased in Pennsylvania and people were counting, a bit, un-hatched chickens....companies will not depart due to the existence of a severance tax.
My guess is some local authorities enjoy the benefits they personally share in that Impact tax and other areas of the state would like more of the pie....therefore the fight between the two ideas.

Have fun tho in wearing any cape or mask that gives the feeling of vanquishing some mighty foe.
You are not alone, many folks do choose the selfish view of being born-again or seeing-the -light rather than the unselfish view that one can always learn and that words mean little without the ability to recognize the pollution self-interest.
Just look at those using ignorance to destroy the management of the National Forests.
Same selfishness....different face.

Weather you see my thoughts as immature or some sort of agenda is unimportant, whats really happening in small town America, is. My level of knowledge of the Marcellus shale gas operations in PA is as deep as the wells and quite accurate but that's not really important either, however, it does bother me that so many have been brain washed by industry spokesmen such as the land man, and company executives who have grossly misinformed citizens and landowners here in PA of the truth and possibilities of what will become of their clean water and land. What's worse is that they have awakened an attitude that landowners have the right to do on their property what they wish without concern for their neighbors or the environment. We can go around in circles like we did a while back but it really would be a waste of time since we both see things much differently. I will always voice my concern especially when I have physical evidence to prove my concern. Our environment and natural resources cannot protect themselves from irresponsible industries who have a proven track record of polluting and telling lies. And I don't need to wear a mask to do it, never did. As for our National Forests and proper management, I'll leave it to the professionals and environmental groups to hash out. But anything that involves major environmental disturbance or risk of pollution should not be allowed in my opinion.

[Rod W]

Progressive/Socialist --------------------------------Conservative
More taxes, spend more on entitlements--------Cut taxes, pay off the deficit
Bigger government, more control-----------------Smaller gov, just leave me alone!
No fossil fuels, GLOBAL WARMING----------------Natural gas,Keystone Pipeline, fracking, more jobs
Gun control works-----------------------------------No more gun control---States with conceal carry show the way
Pro Choice/ this is not the opposite of-----------Pro Life
Taxpayer pays for birth control--------------------I will keep my own plan
Taxpayer funded abortions-------------------------How many future Einsteins have been lost?
I have a right to a home----------------------------I have a right to PURCHASE A HOME, with my own MONEY!
Employment interferes with my well being,limits my freedom,JOB LOCK-----Employment is my WELL BEING, enabling my freedom

If any of these statements are wrong/ untrue, PLEASE, LET ME KNOW HOW, I WOULD LOVE TO VOTE "DEMOCRATIC" BEING A RETIRED UNION MEMBER!!! Who was it that said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY?"[/quote]
How about the company i work for that everyone running it is a conservative and 90% of the people they hire are illegal ? Oh that's right they do not Know the people they hire are illegal because it is the temp agencies responsibility to check that information. I guess you could thank the conservative's for you retirement plan since they love union retirement plans so much :roll:[/quote]


Let me add under :
Progressive/Lib/Dem----------------------------------------------Conservatives
Give all Illegal Aliens amnesty/ citizenship---------------Make them learn ENGLISH, get in line behind those applying LEGALLY-
Blame everyone else for the troubles in the world-------Get the education you need to SUCCEED, then move on

[whatsnext]

I worked for a few years and have a retirement plan but it has no connection to a union.

Everyone knows about your generation and what it has received from the hours in which where worked by your generation.I would be willing to bet that my generation will not receive the same for most likely more hours worked.

[whatsnext]

Rod W if conservatives have those view's or beliefs in which you speak of then why do they hire illegals? I posted a fact of what is happening ALL over mainly by conservative's so how do you explain that? Conservatives are hiring illegals over English speaking citizen solely for monetary gain and that is a FACT, so explain to me why they are hiring illegals if they have such strong moral beliefs?

[Bounty_Hunter]

Rod W if conservatives have those view's or beliefs in which you speak of then why do they hire illegals? I posted a fact of what is happening ALL over mainly by conservative's so how do you explain that? Conservatives are hiring illegals over English speaking citizen solely for monetary gain and that is a FACT, so explain to me why they are hiring illegals if they have such strong moral beliefs?

Since I consider myself more of an independent, It would be good to get an answer to that question?

[Mountaineer]

...My level of knowledge of the Marcellus shale gas operations in PA is as deep as the wells and quite accurate....

[Rod W]

Rod W if conservatives have those view's or beliefs in which you speak of then why do they hire illegals? I posted a fact of what is happening ALL over mainly by conservative's so how do you explain that? Conservatives are hiring illegals over English speaking citizen solely for monetary gain and that is a FACT, so explain to me why they are hiring illegals if they have such strong moral beliefs?

They work for less AND they don't complain (In English)----That is why they get hired. Right or wrong, and I would consider myself an Independant, also. I for one think all employers that hire illegal aliens should be heavily fined but where would that fit in with the libs agenda?

[Bounty_Hunter]

...My level of knowledge of the Marcellus shale gas operations in PA is as deep as the wells and quite accurate....

Now that's an informative response, Here is some free advice, perhaps you should try an orange rooster tail spinner in some fast water, mid day usually works best.

[Mountaineer]

...My level of knowledge of the Marcellus shale gas operations in PA is as deep as the wells and quite accurate....., however, it does bother me that so many have been brain washed by industry spokesmen such as the land man...

OK, I managed to stop laughing.
The "land man" being considered as an industry spokesman is a bit much....they mostly have a bit too little knowledge for that pay grade and comparably scant practical knowledge past what is needed to close a sale.
That belief of them being considered industry spokes people would speak to just how little you actually know and to how easily you are lead by the nose by bad information.
Often, landmen are their own spokesman...not all as some are employed by what you would call Big Oil, but many others are not.
As well, landmen can be land women with short skirts leasing acreage.....that is the way of the side players of every oil boom since Hector was a pup.
You really do not know what you would like to believe you know.

Landowners need to work with an attorney well versed in O&G before leasing...that is the wisest course.
Landowners should stay away from the multitude of land sharks proceeding a boom as well as from the selfish and blissfully ignorant enviros and masked saviors hoping to capitalize on any boom and so become relevant.
Perhaps, from the security of Mom & Em's basement.

I suspect that you are one of those folks desperately birdy to believe in bad Big Anything.
This being supported by the actual existence of bad people in any endeavor and from the reality that accidents will always occur...even with the best of intentions and actions.
What's lacking is experience, perspective, commonsense, knowledge as opposed to spin and an inability to allow truth to defeat a self-focused agenda and propaganda by those skilled in manipulating the fearful and the frustrated.
Keep any Marcellus operator's nose to the grindstone, enforce regulations and develop those regulations that do not exist but should...however, do it w/o hate for Big "X" and w/o a predisposal to believing only what is personally convenient.

As a side note.
I sat beside an SELC fella at the ACGRP presentation some 10 years ago.
Claiming to be a bird hunter from the southern Apps., he showed me a photo of his birddog...a nice Brit, even if a bit wide from too little activity....did not take long in the conversation to determine that as a bird hunter, SELC fella was only a pretender with a bit of stage dressing and a cheat sheet of the right words to drop.
All of which was to allow him a bit of imagined cred with those whom he felt understood the least about our national forests.
Shame when so many have taken the short course on Spin rather than a full course to learn.

*As to the Roostertail....not the best choice in fast water ....there is that experience quotient popping up again.
Plus, co-opting rather than finding an original manner of response is also a mark of someone well out of their depth and struggling to keep a head up.

[Bounty_Hunter]

...My level of knowledge of the Marcellus shale gas operations in PA is as deep as the wells and quite accurate....., however, it does bother me that so many have been brain washed by industry spokesmen such as the land man...

OK, I managed to stop laughing.
The "land man" being considered as an industry spokesman is a bit much....they mostly have a bit too little knowledge for that pay grade and comparably scant practical knowledge past what is needed to close a sale.
That belief of them being considered industry spokes people would speak to just how little you actually know and to how easily you are lead by the nose by bad information.
Often, landmen are their own spokesman...not all as some are employed by what you would call Big Oil, but many others are not.
As well, landmen can be land women with short skirts leasing acreage.....that is the way of the side players of every oil boom since Hector was a pup.
You really do not know what you would like to believe you know.

Landowners need to work with an attorney well versed in O&G before leasing...that is the wisest course.
Landowners should stay away from the multitude of land sharks proceeding a boom as well as from the selfish and blissfully ignorant enviros and masked saviors hoping to capitalize on any boom and so become relevant.
Perhaps, from the security of Mom & Em's basement.

I suspect that you are one of those folks desperately birdy to believe in bad Big Anything.
This being supported by the actual existence of bad people in any endeavor and from the reality that accidents will always occur...even with the best of intentions and actions.
What's lacking is experience, perspective, commonsense, knowledge as opposed to spin and an inability to allow truth to defeat a self-focused agenda and propaganda by those skilled in manipulating the fearful and the frustrated.
Keep any Marcellus operator's nose to the grindstone, enforce regulations and develop those regulations that do not exist but should...however, do it w/o hate for Big "X" and w/o a predisposal to believing only what is personally convenient.

As a side note.
I sat beside an SELC fella at the ACGRP presentation some 10 years ago.
Claiming to be a bird hunter from the southern Apps., he showed me a photo of his birddog...a nice Brit, even if a bit wide from too little activity....did not take long in the conversation to determine that as a bird hunter, SELC fella was only a pretender with a bit of stage dressing and a cheat sheet of the right words to drop.
All of which was to allow him a bit of imagined cred with those whom he felt understood the least about our national forests.
Shame when so many have taken the short course on Spin rather than a full course to learn.

You would make a good land man! You know how to sugar coat the industry while tucking the truth and negative possibilities quickly aside and posing as a true expert.
The main reason lease holders work with an O&G attorney has much more to do with the contract and money that is involved. Do you really believe that most landowners who were advised that there may some slight risk of environmental responsibility, would be discouraged from signing and getting their share. Most drilling usually involves multiple properties anyway so environmental responsibility would be shared but since landowners usually wont sign unless the drilling outfit excepts the responsibility of environmental damage, no worries. I'm no expert on leases but would think most environmental responsibilities fall on the shoulders of the driller, not the property owner. O&G attorneys are in business to make money not scare away possible clients. "There has never been one proven case of groundwater contamination due to fracking". Why would anyone not what to sign a lease, that is anyone who doesn't know the whole truth? What I do believe is that you may be involved somehow with this industry, perhaps you have a lease or even a lease with a well on it, or maybe you are somehow employed by it. Not my business, Don't care. No lack of commonsense on my part and making a statement like that only tells me you just don't like the fact that I do know a great deal about this industry. I never put a spin on something as precious as out environment to do so would be plain disrespectful. The truth is gas drilling is what it is, producing energy comes with a price, spin it any way you want to but there's nothing guaranteed about it. It does contaminate ground water and no one really knows what the long term environmental concequences of this industry will mean for PA. Now How about we get back to the real topic?

[ezzy333]

BH Tell us where you learned about the gas and oil business and also about out environment? Did you study this in college? It just seems funny you hate big business of any kind and know so much about there operations in such a wide band of enterprises.

Ezzy

[Mountaineer]

You would make a good land man! You know how to sugar coat the industry while tucking the truth and negative possibilities quickly aside and posing as a true expert.
The main reason lease holders work with an O&G attorney has much more to do with the contract and money that is involved. Do you really believe that most landowners who were advised that there may some slight risk of environmental responsibility, would be discouraged from signing and getting their share. Most drilling usually involves multiple properties anyway so environmental responsibility would be shared but since landowners usually wont sign unless the drilling outfit excepts the responsibility of environmental damage, no worries. I'm no expert on leases but would think most environmental responsibilities fall on the shoulders of the driller, not the property owner. O&G attorneys are in business to make money not scare away possible clients. "There has never been one proven case of groundwater contamination due to fracking". Why would anyone not what to sign a lease, that is anyone who doesn't know the whole truth? What I do believe is that you may be involved somehow with this industry, perhaps you have a lease or even a lease with a well on it, or maybe you are somehow employed by it. Not my business, Don't care. No lack of commonsense on my part and making a statement like that only tells me you just don't like the fact that I do know a great deal about this industry. I never put a spin on something as precious as out environment to do so would be plain disrespectful. The truth is gas drilling is what it is, producing energy comes with a price, spin it any way you want to but there's nothing guaranteed about it. It does contaminate ground water and no one really knows what the long term environmental concequences of this industry will mean for PA. Now How about we get back to the real topic?

First, an O&G attorney is not the same as an attorney versed in O&G.
A landowner wants the later....there is a difference.
That you can not understand the difference is further proof of how biased and blind your agendas have made you.

I would expect that any environmental issues arising during the drilling of the well would fall to the drilling company and those tasked with responsibility oversight, i.e. the well owners...same for any other point in the entire process pre or post drilling.
Same for building a bridge or any other venture where environmental concerns are legitimate.
You do realize that the drilling company is not always the same as the well owner?...probably not, as I recall the previous issues with understanding attorneys.

Nothing you have said has indicated that you actually know much at all about the Marcellus, the Utica or other gas/oil production for that matter, start to finish, in the Appalachians....that lack of knowledge and reality is almost embarrassing given the degree of time you spend telling everyone how much you know.
Your mistakes and misunderstandings do indicate that you clearly court that super avenger role of those imagined to be impacted, and actually often are impacted, by some Big Corporate presence.
The problem is, you simply find more value in the cape than the truth.

"Gas drilling", as you so immaturely put it, is like any other industry that drives what many call progress....it does carry tradeoffs and a price.
Both of which are routinely spun to a larger presence than they actually occupy by the zealots looking for a cause and a placard to tote.
Most who look at this particular issue with honesty can see all sides and that is a good thing....it is the others who seek to find some personal stump to stand upon and so to appear taller that often causes the problems...causes the problems by missing the real environmental concerns.
And those problems and concerns do exist and often need to be continually addressed and readdressed as time passes to find solutions or new solutions....folks like you tho, eschew solutions for that stump time alone and being able to get some childish kick in to a corporation.

Ground water or surface water pollution occurs.....it occurs from many sources that we all depend upon every day to get us thru that day.
Issues from hydraulic fracturing?....not really as to ground water zones....but, accidents will impact surface water...accidents of all kinds often do.
A world of marshmallow fluff is nice but sadly not very realistic.

I can see why you would want the subject changed....you are profoundly unable to relate more that what you read in some agendized article.
It limits you...it all might play well with fellow zealots but with those who understand the value that honesty brings to solving problems, it continually falls short and it just more of the same old, same old sans any truth.
Fight thru the convenience of ignoring that which is inconvenient and worry less about trying to convert others to some high-toned cause trumpeted from your stump.

I hope you realize that directing the way a thread goes is not up to you....this is not your basement.

[Grange]

Ground water or surface water pollution occurs.....it occurs from many sources that we all depend upon every day to get us thru that day.
Issues from hydraulic fracturing?....not really as to ground water zones....but, accidents will impact surface water...accidents of all kinds often do.
A world of marshmallow fluff is nice but sadly not very realistic.

Unfortunately SOP's from fracking are also causing surface water impacts. WI is a major hotbed for sand mining for fracking and it seems like every other week there is another violation from that industry. Local governments are kicking out long term incumbents because of their position.

[Mountaineer]

One sad part of any boom can be the associated businesses either trying to meet a demand and then environmental concerns increasing and being ignored or in new businesses starting up that do not have the basic knowledge and so effective procedures that come with time.
The later causes a lot of the accidents and miscues in this latest Appalachian boom....the former can be from a lag in regulatory oversight and a shortage of inspectors.

Actually, the plays also affect timber cutting to a degree as better money can be made driving trucks, etc. than out cutting timber, timber that often finds cycles from world market demands.
There is a shortage of chain saw smoke in many areas.
The net gets spread pretty wide on the effects and trade-offs of any intense activity....always has, always will.
Not good, never will be.
The world still spins even though we often get....what we want.

[Bounty_Hunter]

First, an O&G attorney is not the same as an attorney versed in O&G.A landowner wants the later....there is a difference.That you can not understand the difference is further proof of how biased and blind your agendas have made you.I would expect that any environmental issues arising during the drilling of the well would fall to the drilling company and those tasked with responsibility oversight, i.e. the well owners...same for any other point in the entire process pre or post drilling.Same for building a bridge or any other venture where environmental concerns are legitimate.You do realize that the drilling company is not always the same as the well owner?...probably not, as I recall the previous issues with understanding attorneys

First off, don't hate me because I'm right. I would hope someone signing a lease would not want a divorce lawyer handling their lease. I am quite sure that someone with a large plot of land would look for an attorney with experience in mineral rights. I know I would. As far as well ownership, I could care less who owns those fire breathing dragons. I could also care less who owns the leases since they are also bought and sold like used cars. At least PA has one over on other states such as Colorado and Wyoming don't you think? You keep repeating how little I know about this industry yet you fail to provide any information on what it is that I don't know or understand. You just assume things. Here are some facts. No one can guarantee how this relatively new form of drilling will impact our ground water down the road and there is plenty of well documented proof that it does indeed impact ground water right now. I really do wish it didn't, but it does. If you want to deny that then so be it. If you want to make light of it, then so be it also. As I said a while back I am not totally against NG drilling in PA but I do believe the pace at which it is being done and the fact that almost nothing is off limits is a mistake. Someone made this statement a while back, I think maybe we can apply it here. " Not enough folks care about a future they will not live in, it will always sound like they care, as they know the right words to drop, but really, its mostly about me, mine, and the moment." How about it, can we apply that line to those important people running the gas industry or how about those signing valuable leases?

[Grange]

One sad part of any boom can be the associated businesses either trying to meet a demand and then environmental concerns increasing and being ignored or in new businesses starting up that do not have the basic knowledge and so effective procedures that come with time.
The later causes a lot of the accidents and miscues in this latest Appalachian boom....the former can be from a lag in regulatory oversight and a shortage of inspectors.

Actually, the plays also affect timber cutting to a degree as better money can be made driving trucks, etc. than out cutting timber, timber that often finds cycles from world market demands.
There is a shortage of chain saw smoke in many areas.
The net gets spread pretty wide on the effects and trade-offs of any intense activity....always has, always will.
Not good, never will be.
The world still spins even though we often get....what we want.

A company generally doesn't get sent to the Department of Justice for an accident. There are plenty of examples of disregard for the regulations which causes water quality problems. Trouble meeting demand is never an excuse for failing to comply with environmental regulations.

[birddogger]

BH Tell us where you learned about the gas and oil business and also about out environment? Did you study this in college? It just seems funny you hate big business of any kind and know so much about there operations in such a wide band of enterprises.

Ezzy

If learned in college is the case, it makes sense, since the vast majority of college professors are indoctrinating unsuspecting and naive students to the leftists philosopy on everything.

Charlie

[birddogger]

First off, don't hate me because I'm right.

:roll: :roll:

Charlie

[Mountaineer]

First off, don't hate me because I'm right. I would hope someone signing a lease would not want a divorce lawyer handling their lease. I am quite sure that someone with a large plot of land would look for an attorney with experience in mineral rights. I know I would. As far as well ownership, I could care less who owns those fire breathing dragons. I could also care less who owns the leases since they are also bought and sold like used cars. At least PA has one over on other states such as Colorado and Wyoming don't you think? You keep repeating how little I know about this industry yet you fail to provide any information on what it is that I don't know or understand. You just assume things. Here are some facts. No one can guarantee how this relatively new form of drilling will impact our ground water down the road and there is plenty of well documented proof that it does indeed impact ground water right now. I really do wish it didn't, but it does. If you want to deny that then so be it. If you want to make light of it then so be it also. As I said a while back I am not totally against NG drilling in PA but I do believe the pace at which it is being done and the fact that almost nothing is off limit is a mistake. Someone made this statement a while back, I think maybe we can apply it here. " Not enough folks care about a future they will not live in, it will always sound like they care, as they know the right words to drop, but really, its mostly about me, mine, and the moment." How about it, can we apply that line to those important people running the gas industry or how about those signing valuable leases?

Rethink the attorney deal...maybe in a dark and quiet room.

I have said what you don't know(there is only so much bandwidth)....you simply find it most convenient to ignore the inconvenient to admit and hope that blowing smoke works...it doesn't.

Pennsylvania needs a Severance Tax, as I earlier stated, more than they need compared to western states.
But, Internet surfing does take one to far fields and farther afield...some find that travel appealing in a discussion if the neighborhood becomes uncomfortable.

Your "well documented" evidence re ground water contamination from hydraulic fracturing is much like the evidence for the existence of the Lizard Man in WVa.
Many do believe in each...especially, if there is personal value or stump time for them in that belief.

You missed the point(conveniently?) of those last quoted words....likely from too much time spent spinning and weaving rather than thinking.
Try to generate a bit of original thinking as well...you appear too used to using the surfed and adopted thoughts and words of others in what you post.
That clearly implies weakness.

Leases can be very valuable...good reason to involve a smart attorney(see above), alert for shenanigans, for advice rather than taking the advice of Internet experts needing attention and possessing a depth of knowledge akin to sheet of foolscap.


The Marcellus/Utica has many issues worthy of concern...environmental, fiscal and beyond, for communities, states and the nation....try not to let your rather childish outlook of capes and heroes and evil doers distract from those legitimate issues.
Too often folks like you prefer distraction as that brings the most attention.....the old tantrum at the toy counter in Woolworth scenario.
I think I'll just let you hold your breath until you turn blue....obviously someone should have done that years(well, a few I reckon) ago.

[Mountaineer]

A company generally doesn't get sent to the Department of Justice for an accident. There are plenty of examples of disregard for the regulations which causes water quality problems. Trouble meeting demand is never an excuse for failing to comply with environmental regulations.

No excuse is involved :roll: ...heads should roll if actions rise to a sufficient level of disregard or particulars do not meet compliance.
Seldom though is a compliance failure a one-way street.....one sees that too regularly in coal mining.

Fixing a problem requires understanding all aspects of the problem....that can lead to changes apart from any one company.
It's simply best to look past the one, or largest, black hat in the room.....I realize that may not be as popular an idea though.

[Grange]

A company generally doesn't get sent to the Department of Justice for an accident. There are plenty of examples of disregard for the regulations which causes water quality problems. Trouble meeting demand is never an excuse for failing to comply with environmental regulations.

No excuse is involved :roll: ...heads should roll if actions rise to a sufficient level of disregard or particulars do not meet compliance.
Seldom though is a compliance failure a one-way street.....one sees that too regularly in coal mining.

Fixing a problem requires understanding all aspects of the problem....that can lead to changes apart from any one company.
It's simply best to look past the one, or largest, black hat in the room.....I realize that may not be as popular an idea though.

Excuses are almost always given when there is a compliance failure. Problem is most of the time those excuses are just that excuses. I can offer many examples from not anticipating the weather to no money to my favorite excuse "I didn't know". I find the opposite about compliance failure not being a one way street. When an applicant gets a permit or approval for a project the environmental regulations are in black in white. On a rare occasion there may be a good reason for compliance failure and when that happens it is not uncommon for the regulators to work with the project personnel to ensure the failure will not be repeated rather than pursue enforcement.

[Mountaineer]

No, I meant I was offering no excuses for a company failure to comply.
Companies or individuals...excuses are all too common.

We differ though if you are saying that any degree of success in compliance to regulations can not involve less than stellar decisions and actions by compliance officials.
Which is fine....it's a big world.

[Bounty_Hunter]

Your "well documented" evidence re ground water contamination from hydraulic fracturing is much like the evidence for the existence of the Lizard Man in WVa.Many do believe in each...especially, if there is personal value or stump time for them in that belief.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index. ... _conf.html

http://www.earthworksaction.org/issues/ ... wq-iGePLIU

[Grange]

No, I meant I was offering no excuses for a company failure to comply.
Companies or individuals...excuses are all too common.

We differ though if you are saying that any degree of success in compliance to regulations can not involve less than stellar decisions and actions by compliance officials.
Which is fine....it's a big world.

You are offering an excuse in your second paragraph by placing partial blame on regulators. That is a popular excuse and is often used in combination with the "I didn't know" excuse. The percentage of time that excuse has any validity is extremely low.

[ezzy333]

I will tell you here and now, if you are advocating doing nothing because it might cause a problem you deserve whatever you get. The fear of mistake causing anyone not to try is the complete downfall of man and you deserve the failures you perceive and the moral and economic failure it will produce.

Ezzy

[Mountaineer]

You are offering an excuse in your second paragraph by placing partial blame on regulators. That is a popular excuse and is often used in combination with the "I didn't know" excuse. The percentage of time that excuse has any validity is extremely low.

Nope...offering up some reality...not a good reality but, it happens.
Partial blame in some circumstances?, sure,....or better said, enabling..... possibly by an attitude of "it was always done this way", such as the MSHA folks announcing their arrival and focus of the day.
Seeing claimed reality as an excuse likely says most about who says it does not exist, or implies that regulators are always perfect and unimpeachable ....as does adding in the "I didn't know" combo excuse to sweeten the pot one direction. One direction is one-way....a bad deal, ime.
Folks most often know when they are avoiding a requirement or compliance....the % of true ignorance, as you imply, would be very low, that is my assumption as well.
I have no knowledge of the WI issue and do not believe I implied I did....I only offered up what my experience has delivered in viewing reality....through open eyes.

Don't make the mistake of believing that earlier Pa. character who was seeking to tar any who disagree with his view as being solidly pro Big Whatever....just not the case....it is just more typical spin and smoke as he became uncomfortable and sought some relief...that's highschool stuff, the same as cherrypicking the Net for "evidence."
In the Marcellus/Utica case there are problems.... high degrees of environmental concern exist, the influx of folks wanting a piece of the pie can offer up inexperience and so tragedies is another and much is still unknown as to future negative issues ...AND positive potential or longevity as a third.
There are others.
Booms do bring out the nuts on BOTH sides and eyes slam shut protecting what is uncomfortable for either Pro or Con side to accept.

The Keystone anti-Big younker is simply again offering up the presently popular Them versus Us scenario......which is too limiting when Them are always the bad guys in every measure and US are always only gazing at rainbows while being put under an enormous boot heel.
Offering up the idea of being open to learning is just shallow cover to yet again surf the Net for additional agenda bait...more kid's stuff.
But, hey...for those who like to convert the lost to the light then, perhaps it does work on the lost.
I do expect tho that one must like bandwagons as well as being lost.
I don't.

[Bounty_Hunter]

Grange, one of the biggest problems that has been in question since this huge industrial activity began is the lack of DEP inspectors to do the job. If there are hundreds of violations on wells that were properly inspected, I'm wondering how many violations are missed because of limited inspections and what about those wells that are said not to have ever been inspected. Sad to say but our own Governor sold us down the road. Not just him but the state reps that could have demanded better protection of our states resources. Don't get me wrong, there were some voicing concern and backing concerned citizens and there are some good people within the DEP that are and have been trying to do the best they can with limited resources, but lets remember were talking about big energy and there not small potatoes. What does bother many is the fact that this industry has been somewhat self regulated because of the lack of manpower by the state. Drilling activity has slowed down in some areas but not sure what this year will bring.

[Bounty_Hunter]

Don't make the mistake of believing that earlier Pa. character who was seeking to tar any who disagree with his view as being solidly pro Big Whatever....just not the case....it is just more typical spin and smoke as he became uncomfortable and sought some relief...that's highschool stuff, the same as cherrypicking the Net for "evidence."

Let me get this straight. So now I'm just some character behaving like a highschool kid who only gets knowledge from the internet, and I am only expressing my concern for the environment because I like to tar folks that disagree with me? :roll: Perhaps I've been a little to nice to you. The only one expressing a high school mentality is you. You assume you can confuse us with your joke book and attempted slurs but you are quite an open book. How about showing some class and just admit you support the industry because of XXX ect. and be done. I know I'd have more respect for you if you took that approach. Most of my knowledge of this industry came from sitting down with concerned citizens in a tightly knitted group to try to protect a large drinking water resource near my home. The group consisted of 2 doctors, a few engineers and lady who had her own physical therapy practice and about 8 others with a mix of occupations. We did some pretty thorough research and all learned quite a lot about the industry. I never claimed to be an expert of the industry just exercising what I believe to be my right. If you find fault with those who choose to protect the environment that is your business, but stop putting childish names upon folks who see serious violations as a concern for our environment. I'll close with saying, I don't believe there are any simple answers as to how we can produce cleaner energy but turning a blind eye to any industry regardless of what, or how much they do produce, is also unacceptable...