Keeping a horse?

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RuttCrazed
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Keeping a horse?

Post by RuttCrazed » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:45 pm

What all is involved with having a horse? I would like to get a horse, but have no idea where to start??? How much land do they need? How much is too much? Feed? Shots? Shoes? etc.......

Any suggestions on where to start?

Thanks,

Rut

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AZ Brittany Guy
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:20 pm

Good questions. I will be interested to see the comments. I know the most common statement I have heard is "they are costing you money while you are asleep.". I think you need a bigger truck i.e. F-250 type, horse trailer with Living quarters if you trial alot or a cab-over camper and small horse trailer. A Ferrier every other month, Coggins testing, hay etc. All my friends say the day to day up keep is not that bad but god help you if you have a major problem an need a vet. It could run in the thousands.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Karen » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:42 pm

I board my horses...$200/mo. each, which includes hay, 12 acres of pasture for 6 horses), run in shed, place to keep my trailer and tack, indoor ring, 100 acres of fields to ride, direct access to trails and a very knowledgeable barn owner. I pay for grain in addition. Mine are both easy keepers so they run around $10/month each. Farrier for front shoes is $85 or $125 for 4 shoes, every 6 - 8 weeks, depending on the time of year. I have shoes pulled in the winter so a trim is $40 every 8 weeks then. I leave the horses shod all summer as we do a bit of trail riding and work the dogs from horseback all summer.

2 vet visits a year (spring & fall) running around $60 each visit for shots, plus coggins ($30). We have an equine dentist come to a couple trials here in NJ, so I have their teeth floated at the trial for $40 each. If you're comfortable giving your own shots, you can have the vet out once a year to draw the coggins and possibly do a rabies shot (depends on your state laws....we can't buy rabies in NJ).

We seem to go through a bottle of fly spray every 10 days or so also.

Tack is also a big expense but if cared for, lasts many years.

If keeping your horse at home, you'll need to check your local zoning laws. Where I live they require 3 acres for the first horse, than an additional acre for each horse. Land is so expensive, it's WAY cheaper to board than to buy land.

I've had my own horse for nearly 4 yrs now and have towed him all over the Northeast with a Dodge Durango and a small 2 horse trailer (VERY small...1950 lbs), and stay at motels while trialing. I've found I can usually find a room in a motel chain for under $65/night and usually a bit less. We added another horse in may, so along with that we added a Ram 2500. We haven't upgraded the trailer yet (I'm really hoping to continue using the current trailer for another 2 yrs), and am debating if I really want a LQ trailer or if I prefer leaving the grounds and taking a nice LONG hot shower at a hotel.
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Brittguy
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Brittguy » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:37 pm

You don't give us any idea how much land you have or if you would be boarding.To extend pasture use ,it is best to divide it rather than letting them run all over. Move them to each section as needed.Most horses need little grain if they are not being worked and have good pasture.I am not going to debate proper horse care but I can give you some ideas to cut cost and I feel it is still properly caring for your horse. If you are riding on soft ground,fields ,no paved surfaces or rocky areas you probably could get by without shoes. Some people do not consider having teeth floated as long as the horse has proper weight and does not spill his grain while eating.So you could eliminate this cost maybe have him looked at if your farrier does such thing. While I said you need no shoes you will need trimming. Farriers in my area also float teeth(I'm not sure if this is common everywhere).Give shots yourself or have vet give shots when he comes for coggins test.My horses only see vet once a year unless something is apparent that I cannot handle. The worming you can do yourself very easy.If you have room buy your hay in the spring or early summer when it is being made. You can get it out of the field or have them deliver. The price goes up in after January when people start running short. Saddles can be bought used for about 1/2 price or less ,rest of the things you might as well buy new.I would suggest a 3/4 ton truck but trailer does not have to be a big rig, at least not to start.Horses do vary as to how much feed and care they require.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:55 pm

If you have an acre of good grassland that you can set aside, that is sufficient for one horse. one animal unit per acre is a general rule of thumb and 1 AU is 1000 # of animal, or one horse.

Karen and Brittguy went over most of the dollars and cents stuff. The costs of services vary with area, typically the lcoser you are to a city or highly developed areas, the higher the costs are.

I would like to address the non-financial aspects of horse ownership.

If you have a horse at home, you will be feeding it twice a day in the winter, once a day in the summer. You will be changing their water every other day, in the summer and running electric to the stock tank so it does not freeze in the winter. You will be checking them over and checking their feet daily or at least a couple times a week. Horses are herd animals, so many horses do not do well if kept alone. You may have to buy a goat or some other animal for it to herd with. An older, well broke, experienced horse will probably give you much better service, but their useful life will be that much less.

Unlike dogs, you cannot take your horse to a kennel when you want to go on vacation. They also need to be ridden occasionally and messed with and socialized to you frequently. Some horses need to be ridden more often than others or they will become difficult to ride. They most definitely are not like a 4 wheeler that you just put in the gas, turn the key and go. I am extremely lucky in the fact that my guys can go for several weeks without being ridden and handle reasonably well after such a long layoff, but not all horses are that forgiving.

A horse is a significant commitment in terms of your free time...much more so than a dog.

A stable does take a lot of the day to day work out of it, but unless the stable is real close by, getting to see and ride your horse becomes a hassle in and of itself.

Lastly, a horse, especially an older horse is very, very difficult to even give away and, if you have had the horse for ten or fifteen years, ridden it and grown to care for it, having to say goodbye has got to be even tougher than with a dog.

I never had horses until I got involved in field trials. I never rode horses and never wanted to, for almost fifty years. I was afraid of them...still am to a degree. But I know and trust my guys. I never thought I would have the same kind of feeling for a horse as I do for my dogs, but they do get under your skin. Big time.

My older horse is 13 and I am sixty. If we both stay healthy and actively field trial for another ten years, that would be terrific. Blackie will be 23 and both he and I will probably kinda fade from the scene together. I might go ride a brace or two here and there, now and then and that will be fun too. I ain't no cowboy and getting up and down gets pretty tiresome after a long day. i sincerely doubt that will improve as i get older. My son's horse, Rudy, is 10 and if the old guy needs a breather, Rudy will be able to lug me around for a while. I do not see me getting another horse unless something bad happens to one of them.

RayG

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by shags » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:09 pm

The good things about keeping a horse
- No more wrangler horses! Woo Hoo!
- Plenty of shopping opportunities! Woo Hoo!
The downside of keeping a horse
- Finding hay during drought years or rainy years. Then paying a fortune for it when you find it.
- Hauling water in 5 gallon buckets from the house when the barn hydrant freezes.
- Cleaning the barn in 98 degree heat
- Having your farrier 'fire' you because he's not driving all this way to do one trim anymore.
- What the heck good is one horse? You need two at least, so your spouse, trial buddy, whoever can ride, too.
- The bills from the University vet clinic when something goes wrong that the farm vet can't fix.
- No more nice long vacations. You get a day or two here and there, unless you find someone you absolutely trust to horse-sit for you. Forget any get-aways in the winter.
- Mowing the pasture during deerfly season. And horsefly season. And greenhead season.
- Remember when the two-horse trailer and half-ton truck were just fine when you had one horse? Now you have two and need a bigger trailer and bigger truck with bigger insurance bills and bigger fuel costs.
- Fence patrol every day. Horseproofing everything, every day. The big galoots damage stuff just by looking at it sometimes.

All in all though, it's way worth it. :D




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RuttCrazed
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by RuttCrazed » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:34 pm

Thank you for the responses! I would be able to keep them at my work, so the land, feed and being able to see them every day easily (at least 5 days a week) shouldn't be a problem, but things like medications, farrier service and a trailer would be something I would definately have to look into.

When it comes to the actual horse, I am guessing I would need one that has already been broke, as I have no idea how to get it to that stage. Also, what kind of horse would be best for a beginner (or anyone for that matter) to just ride along the prairie all day following dogs? I hear a lot of good things about Tennesee walking horses, but from what I see they are pretty expensive, what does everyone here use?

Thanks,

Rut

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Brittguy » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:17 pm

A gaited horse is a must.There is a reason they are so common at trials. It would also be nice if you could find one that has some experience in what you intend to use him for. Some Walkers are expensive , but that can be said of any breed. Just look hard and you will find one in your price range. Sometimes it is better to pay a little more than you wanted , if you get a great horse. A bargain horse with problems is no deal

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by shags » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:28 pm

Find you a nice gaited horse - walker, fox trotter, racking horse, etc. You can find ads for them sometimes in the American Field magazine, and field dog sites on the internet. Ask local trialers, they might have contacts that could help you. www.horsetopia.com has them, or craig's list.

aylaschamp

Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by aylaschamp » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:10 pm

shags wrote:The good things about keeping a horse
- No more wrangler horses! Woo Hoo!
- Plenty of shopping opportunities! Woo Hoo!
The downside of keeping a horse
- Finding hay during drought years or rainy years. Then paying a fortune for it when you find it.
- Hauling water in 5 gallon buckets from the house when the barn hydrant freezes.
- Cleaning the barn in 98 degree heat
- Having your farrier 'fire' you because he's not driving all this way to do one trim anymore.
- What the heck good is one horse? You need two at least, so your spouse, trial buddy, whoever can ride, too.
- The bills from the University vet clinic when something goes wrong that the farm vet can't fix.
- No more nice long vacations. You get a day or two here and there, unless you find someone you absolutely trust to horse-sit for you. Forget any get-aways in the winter.
- Mowing the pasture during deerfly season. And horsefly season. And greenhead season.
- Remember when the two-horse trailer and half-ton truck were just fine when you had one horse? Now you have two and need a bigger trailer and bigger truck with bigger insurance bills and bigger fuel costs.
- Fence patrol every day. Horseproofing everything, every day. The big galoots damage stuff just by looking at it sometimes.

All in all though, it's way worth it. :D




-
LMAO!!!!!!! SOOOOOO TRUE!

As for your decision, don't take anyone's word as for what's best for you! Go to a few barns and devote the money and time for lessons. Try out several horses and get a feel for what YOU and not someone else likes. Not all gated horses are as easy to ride as people think and just because they aren't gated doesn't make them uncomfortable to ride all day long. Take some lessons and learn why you do the things you are suposed to do and try many types of horses. It's a process that you should contemplate as hard as buying a house.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:09 am

Rutcrazed -

The actual expenses are not all that bad if you have a place to keep the animal and let it exercise. The costs are even less if there is forage(pasture) available.
If no forage, a horse will need a half a bale of hay per day and about 5 # of grain(more of both in winter, less in summer).

A bale of horse quality hay, delivered, wil set yo back about $3-5 and a 50# bg of pelleted stock feed goes for about ten bucks. You do the math, depending on how many days you will be feeding hay. I feed hay approximately 90 days a year(mid Dec thru mid March). Depends on where you live.

Farrier expense is approximately $25 - 40 per horse(if you do trims only), about every six weeks. That is $225 - 360 per year. If you need/want shoes you can double that for shoes on the front and doulbe it again for shoes on all four. Unless you are riding in rocky conditions, you really don't need shoes on a horse with good feet, IMO, and if you do need shoes, often the horse only needs the fronts shod.

Vet costs are about $250 per year for all shots and a coggins test(so you can travel). Depending on your area yo may not need all the shots an you may not need both a spring and fall visit whicih will cut the bill down significantly.

Dentistry is about $80 per visit and if the horse is on pasture, their teeth should be floated at least every 6-9 months because of the abrasive nature of the grasses. Once a year, regardless. If the horse's teeth cut into its mouth(which is what happens becaus they get sharp as they wear, it won't eat right for one, and it sure wont be happy when you stick a bit in its mouth and start yanking on it. That can get you hurt, real quick.

Trailers are an area where you can go crazy... or not. You can get a used, steel stock trailer in good shape for between $1000 - 2000 and a 14 - 16 ft. stock trailer is plenty big enough for two horses, gear, feed and water. It is essentially a one time expense and maintenance is minimal(tires and brakes) if you keep the rust under control.

Tack is another are where you can blow a budget, but you can buy a very good used saddle for $400 - 600 and the rest of the tack(saddle blanket bridle, bit, cold weather blanket, tie out, grooming tools)for about $300 - 500. Again, these are one time expenses and yo do not need all the stuff all at once. Often you can get the bit that the horse is using from the seller or some or all of the horse's tack when you buy the horse.

As far as the horse itself, I would advise yo to get a gaited horse and a Tennessee Walker or Missouri Foxtrotter is probably the most horse for the money. Get a plain colored horse. The fancy colors command a higher price and they don't ride any better. Most often, if they are bred for looks, they might not ride as good. in fact, if I were going for a Walker, I'd concentrate on Black or Bay. I would get a gelding because, although mares are cheaper, you gotta deal with the hormone thing...every month.

The purchase price and quality of the horse is the ONE area that I would not skimp on. Your life is in that horse's "hands" so to speak. Go for the S's.

SAFE, SANE, SENSIBLE, STRONG, SMOOTH, SOUND.

A horse that can carry you , all day, in comfort, that will stand there, look at you and when you look into its eyes you don't see any white, and it lets you clean its hooves and saddle it, let you mount without taking off, won't freak out when someone fires a gun or when a deer or rabbit or snake pops up in front of it, or who won't launch you into space because a dog just ran underneath it is a horse that I would want, and yeah, that kind of horse I am willing to pay a little extra for. I'm worth it.

I paid $3500 for a dark bay 15-2 Tennessee Walker, almost ten years ago. It cost me an additional $500 to have him shipped up. I can handle off him, scout off him, road dogs off him, ride in the gallery or judge off him. I can run a dog down with him and I am NOT a good rider. I can lay him up and not ride him for weeks ata time and when I saddle hime up, he is the same horse I rode three weeks earlier. I can do all these things in compete confidence and be able to concentrate on watching the dog(s) because i know he will take care of business. He parks out for me to mount and stands there until I tell him to go. I can ride him all day(8 hours) and when I get off, I can still walk just fine. I can ride him for several days in a row with no difficulty for him or me. Is he perfect? No...but he is a far better horse than I am a rider and that works for me. He make me look like I know what I am doing out there.

BTW, I had lots of folks tell me I paid waaaay to much for Blackie. Maybe I did...maybe not. I do know that I still have him and many of those folks are on their second or third horse since then. I'll probably have him and ride him for the next ten years or so, Lord willing.

RayG
Last edited by RayGubernat on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Crestonegsp » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:22 am

I always like to remind first time horse buyers is that you are NOT buying another piece of trialing equipment you're getting another pet. Horses are very social animals ... which is why its hard to have just one ... they like to have a buddy. They enjoy company and human companionship. So, in addition to money spent, plan on time spent too.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Wagonmaster » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:20 am

My horse keeping expenses are pretty low. I have approximately 4 acres of pasture for two horses. I read Ray's post about 1 acre per AU, and that is a good figure for good grassland. The problem with horses is that they are very hard on the soil, packing it down over a two or three year span, so the grass tends to get thin. I have heavy clay soil which does not make things better. My normal costs are about $700 or 800 for 200 hundred bales of good grass hay, delivered and stacked for me. We feed a half bale of hay per horse and a scoop of regular oats, per day, during the winter. From some point in May until some point in Sept., they are just on pasture. I have a heated automatic waterer and a loafing shed, they are outside even during the winter. A full check up by a vet each spring, and one or two short visits to get health certificates when the time comes to trailer them out of state for a trial. Regular worming which is not difficult nor very expensive. Attention by the farrier about every six weeks. He charges $350 for the two to put full shoes on, and about $75 to come out trim the feet and reset the shoes. The shoes come off for the winter because the ice likes to ball up under their hoof if you don't, but they still need to have their feet trimmed. It is not too hard to trim them yourself, but I just don't have the time or the back.

It is about $2000 per year for the two horses, which I split with another trialer.

You do need a good trailer and pulling vehicle.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Greg Jennings » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:07 am

RayGubernat wrote:BTW, I had lots of folks tell me I paid waaaay to much for Blackie. Maybe I did...maybe not. I do know that I still have him and many of those folks are on their second or third horse since then. I'll probably have him and ride him for the next ten years or so, Lord willing.
Ray, I think you got a serious bargain on that horse. In fact, it's sounding like a once in a lifetime bargain.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by RuttCrazed » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:45 am

Thanks again for all the responses! I am currently trying to figure out the best way to go about getting a horse, without putting the cart before the horse if you know what I mean. First off, if I find a horse, how do I get it here? Do I buy the trailer first, but then what if I don't find a horse? When do I get the tack? I think I have a spot picked out for the horse, but what about when winter rolls around???? Do vets make house calls? Should I get two instead of one? I don't even have a horse yet and I already have a headache!!! 8)

Rut

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:02 am

Greg -

I wholeheartedly agree. I just posted it that way as food for thought.

In my opinion it is patently stupid to consider owning a horse for serious, potentially dangerous trail or off trail riding and then to be looking for a bargain at the expense of performance capabilities. Riding a horse across open ground at full throttle chasing after a dog is extremely dangerous business. So is walking downhill on a steep, greasy, clay based trail that is full of loose shale. In situations like that, your life is literally in that horse's hands, so to speak. In those moments, I don't think I would be all that comforted by the fact that I got the cheapest horse I could.

Just like dogs, the guy who owns a good one, knows what they have and it will be priced accordingly. Good is almost never cheap. A smooth, safe, sane, sound and strong 4 year old will,in all likelihood become a smooth, safe, sane and STRONGER 5, 6, 7, 8...15 year old. A spooky, skittish two year old will in all likelihood become an even spookier, more skittish adult, unless the owner is a far, far better horseman and horse trainer than I will ever be...and even then it is not guaranteed.

It never made sense to me to look to spend less on the horse than you did on the saddle, but that is what some folks try. My life is worth more than that ...to me at least.

There are plenty of places where you can shave costs without it hurting anything...like tack, trailer, tow vehicle, pasture fencing, weather protection for the animal, etc.

Just like dogs, it costs the same to keep a good one. Often it can cost less because a good horse is usually less trouble to deal with.

RayG

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Karen » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:07 am

If you're actively horse shopping and it's only a matter of time before you buy, I don't see an issue with buying a trailer, then the horse, but if you find the horse before the trailer, there are transport companies that can move a horse from seller to buyer. Some of your local stables may offer it as a service, or the seller may be willing to transport the horse for you, for a fee. Just make sure you see that horse get on and off a trailer (a couple times) before buying. Nothing worse than a horse that won't load.

Hard to say about one or two. I have a friend who purchased 1 horse and then a goat and travels with horse AND goat to field trials (the goat stakes out like a dog).

I'd get the tack when you get the horse. Not all saddles fit all horses. I bought a young horse that wasn't done filling out, and am on my 3rd saddle in 4 yrs (this one should be THE saddle though), but was able to sell the others for close to, if not exactly, what I paid for them. My horse is short-backed, so a Haggis saddle works best for him (Tucker & Heskets are 3 inches longer and dig into his loins). John's horse fits a Tucker nicely. If buying from another field trialer, find out what they ride in (brand AND tree size), and buy the same thing if you can. Also make sure you buy the same bit, or offer to buy the horse AND tack (or at least bridle) from the seller. When we bought Quinn, the seller loaned us his bridle and bit until we were able to get the same bit for him, then we mailed the bridle & bit back to her.

Yes, vets make house calls. In my experience, horses do best when left outside year round. They need shelter though...a 3 sided run-in shed to get out of the elements or a heavily wooded area.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:28 am

RutCrazed -

I can't answer your questions for you, but you are asking all the right questions.

I would put the items down on paper and do the research, beforehand. This way thereare no nasty surprises.

Do you need a trailer? Maybe. Do you need one before you buy your horse? Probably not. The seller will, in all likelihood have the means to transport the horse to its new home and would likely do so for a reasonable fee, especially if you make it part of the deal.

Are there any folks in your area who want to do the same thing as you, and who already have a horse, trailer and tow vehicle. Offering to pay for gas, tolls and spliiting the driving can be far less expensive than owning your own rig.

I didn't own a trailer until about 8-9 months after I bought my horse. Didn't need to because my horse was with a professional dog trainer and he brought him to all the trials I would have entered anyway. I also got to ride him on the trainers own grounds and watch some of the dogs in training. Learned a bunch that way.

What kind of tack you get really does depend on exactly what you want to do with the horse and, more importantly the physical structure of the horse itself.

Winter requirements for a horse are not all that much different from summer requirements. They need water, food, a salt block with trace minerals, a safe place to run around and a place to get in out of the weather(be it summer sun and heat or winter cold and wind).

Make a list of the needs and then figure out how best to fill those needs. Pencil in some rough figures as ranges, low to high, and if you need options (like horse transport) try to create them for yourself.

If the middle to high estimates look doable for you, then go ahead and start horse shopping.

RayG

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Dobe » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:57 pm

I've been riding almost as long as I've been on this earth. Horses are the greatest creatures. They are a lot of work and expense so be sure you are willing to invest both. Don't skimp on the horse, hay, farrier, vet care, or good-fitting tack. If you are inexperienced, get some lessons. Don't be ashamed to wear a helmet, either.
Here is my favorite poem. This pretty well sums it up on good horses, good dogs, and good people:

Heart
I talked to a friend just the other day
who’s got lots of opinions and plenty to say.
We discussed what we both like to see in a horse
His requirements and mine were different of course…
He likes a clean throatlatch and a long skinny neck,
and prefers that their hocks are set close to the deck.
Short backs and hard feet and clean slopin’ shoulder,
and a gaskin that looks like it swallered a boulder.
He likes a short face and a big ol’soft eye,
and says these are the horses he’s likely to buy.
And when he’d completed his lengthy discourse,
on all of the attributes of the quality horse.
He asked my opinion, and where do I start?
And I said that I….just want horses with heart.
I said I want heart above all the other.
I don’t care if he’s Smart Little Lena’s full brother.
Or just how much money that his grandmother won,
or whether he’s roan, palomino or dun.
But give me a horse with some grit and some try,
and some heart and some guts and that’s one that I’ll buy.
And I’ve found it’s the same with a woman or man….
the good ones won’t quit you when the "bleep" hits the fan

by Monte Baker

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:25 pm

I would suggest going and taking riding lessons first before you even start to look at horses to buy. A good riding instructor can help you find a good horse when the time is right. Learning to ride and also the "lingo" will teach you what to look for in a horse too.

I just bought a beautiful, used saddle for $350 but it is definitely not what a FT person usually would use. LOL In fact I only know of one other person who uses a dressage saddle to FT in! THat's another Weim person, ZZweims! I personally can't find a stock saddle that would fit me correctly as I fit a 16.5 seat. I grew up riding English and in fact sold my old dressage saddle years back. It has enough D-rings on it for me to strap things on during a trial so it works for me.

Be sure to get the horse vetted before you get it. See if you can take the horse home on a trial basis to see if it is a good fit.

Now is the time to get some good buys on horseflesh. There are quite a few people who can't get hay in the TX, OK area because of the droughts so they are having to sell them off. We had this problem a few years back here in the SouthEast and good horses were going for very reasonable prices.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by shags » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:18 pm

When I bought my first horse the seller trailered him to where I was boarding him. I was there when he was loaded in the trailer, and unloaded, so I could see how he did with it. It was a week or two before I bought any tack, and that time let us get to know each other and develop some trust. I worked on grooming, leading, picking feet up, and that kind of thing.
There are plenty of places to buy saddles - you can try the different field trial boards, ebay, craigslist, local tack store, friends who trial or ride, etc. Before you buy, get the advice of a knowlegeable person - don't buy things because they are a bargain or sharp-looking - you need to buy what suits your level of experience and the horse. Some folks are way more comfortable with a western saddle to start with, because there's that horn to grab if needed. You can always sell what you started with and get something different as you learn or as your opinions change.
Trial season is starting, and you might do well to attend a bunch and keep your eyes and ears open for horses for sale. At a trial, you can observe the horse and also have the opportunity to ride him in the kind of conditions in which you'll use him. And, there are a lot of knowlegeable people around if you have questions or problems.
The initial cash outlay can hefty, but if you choose well you're done except for feed, vets, and farriers. As you go along, you find a gazillion ways to save money.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:31 pm

Pam -

I came aross a saddle that someone like yourself might like. It was a Finnish made saddle, designed for Icelandics. It is the Falki model by Hnakkvirki. It is amazingly light, has some sort of adjustable tree and sits right close onto the horse.

My daughter in law is a tiny little lady, about 5 ft 1 or 2 and a legitimate size 2. She swam around in every saddle I tried her in. She is also a very novice rider and pretty unsure of herself. I found this saddle and it looked like it would fit her. I put on a pair of hooded stirrups and a leather grab strap for the front. She absolutely loves the saddle and feels very secure in it. I think the knee rolls have something to do with that sense of secuity.

I actually tried the saddle myself and it is too small for my big butt, but it sits nice on the horse and I could see how comfortable it would be for a smaller rider.

RayG

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by shags » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:01 am

You can look into paragon saddles - close contact, deep seats, not expensive new, not hard to find used. Google 'paragon saddle' and you'll find tons of them (sorry, tried to post a pic but couldn't)

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:12 pm

RayGubernat wrote:Pam -

I came aross a saddle that someone like yourself might like. It was a Finnish made saddle, designed for Icelandics. It is the Falki model by Hnakkvirki. It is amazingly light, has some sort of adjustable tree and sits right close onto the horse.

My daughter in law is a tiny little lady, about 5 ft 1 or 2 and a legitimate size 2. She swam around in every saddle I tried her in. She is also a very novice rider and pretty unsure of herself. I found this saddle and it looked like it would fit her. I put on a pair of hooded stirrups and a leather grab strap for the front. She absolutely loves the saddle and feels very secure in it. I think the knee rolls have something to do with that sense of secuity.

I actually tried the saddle myself and it is too small for my big butt, but it sits nice on the horse and I could see how comfortable it would be for a smaller rider.

RayG
Ray,

That almost looks like my dressage saddle. I have a Passier Baum. http://www.equinenow.com/english_saddle-ad-941I lucked into mine at a much lower price than I have ever seen!

Every Trooper, Tucker, etc that I have ever tried has not fit me well and has rubbed me. Your daughter in law is about the same size as I am. I am only 5 ft. tall.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Kiki's Mom » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:03 am

Good is almost never cheap. A smooth, safe, sane, sound and strong 4 year old will,in all likelihood become a smooth, safe, sane and STRONGER 5, 6, 7, 8...15 year old. A spooky, skittish two year old will in all likelihood become an even spookier, more skittish adult, unless the owner is a far, far better horseman and horse trainer than I will ever be...and even then it is not guaranteed.
Very true!

For the novice horseman looking to get their first horse I always counsel to look around for a mount that has age and experience under it's belt. I prefer that age to be at least over 10 and preferably under 20. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 16 or 17 year old horse who has been well taken care of as your first mount. Realistically, if you care for that 16-17 year old well, you will get almost 10 years of quality service from that animal before retirement. That is more then enough time to get yourself comfortable with all of the aspects of horse ownership. By the time your first horse is ready to retire you will more then likely have improved your horsemanship skills and will have aquired your second mount and you will have stepped up your game so to speak.

Placing the senior horse is easier said sometimes then done, but just like dog ownership horse ownership requires a commitment of heart as well as finances. There are more senior FT horses on the circuit then perhaps you may realize. They are usually the horses that fe eolks are more likely to loan out because they are safe and experienced enough to handle the newbie field trialer....and remember in the horseworld, everything has it's price :) :) :)

One of our clients just recently purchased just such a horse last Spring. He was obtained very reasonably ( under $1000) because the original owner wanted him to go to a great home instead of worrying about how much money he could get out of the 16 years of service and FT experience that this horse had under his belt. Since this horse is boarded with me and I do most of the riding on him between trials, I can honestly tell you that the horse is an absolute gem :) He is my ride of choice for a pleasure ride and is safe and trustworthy enough to take care of his new owner at the trials :)

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:02 pm

A little late maybe to be chiming in...

I read all of the posts and that is as much fun as I've had on the 'net in a while.

One thing I noticed and would like to offer, after you get your pony:

If you get a warmblood (Foxtrotter, Saddlebred, Walker, etc.) be cautious of the supplements you feed. A lot of the feedstores would like for you to buy the mixed feeds as supplements. Most of us do supplement the grass hays. But be careful of feeding any of the mixes that include ANY form of molasses or sweeteners. Watch out for the starchy stuff too. Too much sugar from the molasses or the corns and you can make a docile creampuff into a jumpy, spooky powderkeg in a matter of weeks.

I'd also advise against feeding alfalfa. Mix alfalfa and sweetened feeds and you are really asking for trouble.

I own two Foxtrotters. I try to feed a nice, clean Timothy or Orchard grass hay. If not available for less than gold I feed a K-31 which is a mixed seed grass of fescue and brome or fescue and Kentucky. It goes by the tradename of "Herdmaster". Ask your baler how old the field is too. As the field ages the fescue becomes dominant. If the field is in the six or so year range without having been re-seeded I might pass on the purchase. Fescue is not good for mares in general and really not good for pregnant mares.

I then supplement with a ProManna called "Safe Performance" which is a very low starch pelletized supplement. There is a similar called "Safe Choice", it is however a buck higher per 50# and it is not as high in some of the trace minerals. Either are very good for warmbloods.

Finally, as mentioned, there's lots of good horses out there. Don't put up with a knucklehead. They're not worth the head aches and they can get you hurt. I had an old cowboy tell me, "There's only two kinds of horses. Ones that have hurt you and the ones that are gonna hurt you." Even the best horses can be unpredictable and dangerous.

Good luck! Have fun! They're worth every bit of it!
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:37 pm

Rutcrazed -

There are many reasons to cut corners on expenses. I'll give you one reason not to cut corners on a horse. It is something that just happened to me.

My horse, Blackie has always been good about taking care of me. When on the rare occasion, he misses his footing, he does everything he can to keep both of us safe. He has walked on his front knees for a dozen steps or more before coming back up after a stumble.

Anyhow, I was scouting for a fellow at a trial down in VA recently and it was VERY muddy and greasy. I had to go over a drainage ditch to get to the dog and Blackie went for it at my insistence, but the ditch was about two feet deeper than I estimated and the ditch edge was a whole lot softer than I estimated. Long story short...He lost his footing and went down. I rolled off his neck to one side and as we were sliding, I saw him reach out with his front hooves to try and get his balance. He hit my forearm with one and my side with the other and instantly pulled them back and continued to slide with hooves tucked. I came away with two small bruises instead of a broken arm and caved in ribs, simply because he chose not to hurt me. How much is that worth to me? I think you can guess.

Get a safe, sane horse. You won't regret it.

RayG

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by tn red » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:50 pm

Think Ray is right buy a good horse and you will enjoy it buy anything less and it will cost much more in many ways. Find a horse you like then have someone you trust look at it.Many people now days have cheap horses but there is a reason they are cheap a good horse cost more up front but well worth it

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by rockllews » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:32 pm

RayG, Good story, great horse. :D

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:36 pm

As I first started Field Trialling with the AFTCA in N. M. I thought I would go in cheaply in case it proved to be a passing fancy. I do this as a matter of course if what interests me at the moment might be pricey. I did the same when I started (back) into the game of golf. Clubs and such can be expensive so I bought my first set out of a pawn shop...

So I started in without a horse and then realized that I would need one. I asked a jobsite friend that kept horses if he might find one for me. He had one, and cheap! So I told him I didn't know a lot about it but this is what I'll use the horse for and do you think that'd be ok?

"Why, shore", sez he.
And I said, "I'll take the horse and ride him some, but I don't want to pay until I've rode him at a trial."
So in the two months before that trial I rode that horse alot. And he tossed me alot.
He ran off one time and ran toward Rio Rancho (NM west of Abq) and I had to call the cops on him. They arrested him at a park in one of the outlying subdivisions, about five miles off....

Thing was, see, he was an old (22 or so) Cutting Horse. He was savvy. He could do gates, stalls and pens. He could move cattle like a dream. He could turn on a dime. He could do a little move with his front shoulder, kind of a duck and turn that could put me on the ground every time he wished. And he could buck. And he usually chose the time right when my leg was swinging over the saddle when mounting. That gave me a hernia, a bad one.

But I kept him cause I got kind of attached and I thought well, he ain't kicked me or bit me.

So I rode that SOB in the trial and halfway through the second day I could barely walk. His trot was not as smooth as some jackhammers I've ridden. The only way he could keep up with the Walkers and Fox Trotters was to trot. And the "bleep" thing wouldn't separate from the other horses when I needed to go looking for my ROFTEP. Herd-bound and Barn-Sour didn't begin to describe it.

So one of the guys there comes up and gave me a couple of pieces of advice that he was a little hesitant to give and I was real open to hearing:
"First, he says. " Lessons aren't all that expensive, they don't necessarily teach you to ride so much as they teach you what to expect the horse to do, how they move, think and react. Ain't no shame in finding out that stuff. And it'll probably save your life."
"Second", he adds, "There's lots of good horses out there. And there's no reason what-so-ever to put up with one that won't do exactly what you expect and need."
"Lastly", he adds, " All the horses in the world can be divided into two groups: The ones that have hurt you and the ones that are gonna hurt you."

I took that advice. I went and spent good money for a well bred, sane, safe, solid strong horse. I got rid of the cheap, uncomfortable junk and bought good quality tack. I bought a good, solid horse trailer. Then I hired a guy that specialized in gaited horses to teach me to operate the animal and teach the animal to be operated by me.

It's been worth every nickle. Every last penny.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by gmanksu » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:04 pm

Rutt I have two here at the house about 30 minutes from you both safe (as a horse can get), don't go out and by one until you get used to running dogs from one. We need to get together and run dogs, both of mine have handled, scouted, roaded, and been in the gallery at trials.There is a big difference from a horse you can ride and a dog horse, better to find a good dog horse then trying to make one yourself if you are wanting to trial or run dogs from horseback.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by SeniorCoot » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:54 am

I do not want to think about it-- in AK we bought all our hay fro 3 horses-- forget that at $5 a sq bale-(12 yrs ago) now we run three on our 80 ac(45 pasture) about 6 mos of year and feed round bales rest of time-- costs? vet checks-$200-health papers for travel?-round bales approx$350 -Feeder $250-shoes- $120 every six- 8 wks in spring- summer-tractor--some of it's expense horse related some to cattle-- Rnd bale picker $200 fall-trailer($17K) we travel several times a year- tack -we have it-now! But three custom saddles $2000 ea- and decker- bits- etc- etc- the beat goes on- For many years we hunted with our horses but now we do not as we live in Wi- This fall we spent 2 1/2 mos in MT with them- so cost was a bit higher.M ywife handles the horse expenses and i do dogs so i will have missed lots of expenses

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by tn red » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:06 pm

Rut i feel sorry for you .Sounds like price of everything there is 2 to 4 times as much as it is here.I take care of 20 head at half that cost i will say 12 are just brood mares but man vets and farriers there are getting rich.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:47 pm

$120.00 is about $40- per horse on shoes. That's pretty dang good. I'm giving $40- per horse just for the trims, shoes is double. We trim about every 8 wks year-round. We never shoe.

I had a guy tell me when I was horse shopping that he never shod his horses cause in nature they're not shod. I thought about it a minute and then reminded him that "in nature" horses aren't carrying around 200 lb men... :P

I just moved the ponies to a pasture with corrals and cover that will cost $125/mo. It should cut down on my spring-summer-fall feed bill and it's a huge drop in rent.

Horses ain't cheap even if you do have "free" pasture.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by SeniorCoot » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:32 pm

Just checked on shioe prices with wife--Sorry but I mispoke--We paid $70 per horse in MT and now are up to $55 in Wi. No horses ain't cheap- but compared to when I had 35 sled dogs and associated feed/ vet/racing bills, they are cheap. my wife really likes them and i like riding/ hunting with them-

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:05 pm

I think I can get my guys done for $70- per here too. I don't use the 70 buck guy ($35- to trim only) because my regular Farrier ($40- trim) specializes in the angles needed for gaited horses. And he agrees with me that they don't go where shoes are required. It's all soft (beach like) desert sands. I quized the other guy and he didn't impress me, and for 5 bucks I'll just stick with the guy I am perfectly happy with.

I'm saving a few bucks by hauling the ponies to the Vets and lucky enough they just built a really nice, state-of-the-art facility 6 miles from my corrals. Handy. Still pricey, but handy... :roll: We have to watch out for West Nile around here and then every once in we get this Stomatosis thing that gets everyone in a wad. I think I'm giving about $175- per for the annual shots, check up and Coggins.

What kinna horses you got, anyway?
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:06 pm

This is TOO funny: My Farrier just called to schedule for tomorrow! :P :P :lol:
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by SeniorCoot » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:16 pm

2-Tenn Walkers & one old quarter horse ready for glue factory- been my wifes for 19 yrs.--got TW about 4 yrs ago- before that we had all Quarterhorses.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:37 pm

Nice. I really like the Tennessee Walkers.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by SeniorCoot » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:51 am

Yea-- so do we- personally I do not think they are as good in MTNs as Quarter horses BUT that said ours did fine in the Bob marshall wilderness and on the ranch last fall. I have never tried to teach/use them for packing but see no reason why they couldn't do it--I like their smooth ride- tractability- and over all disposition except that they love to spread their hay from round bale around. When we got them i sold some of our old saddle but kept two custom western ones -thinking we might go back to Quarter horses some day- i tried several Amish saddles- and other special Tenn/Aussie saddles on them but ended up with my Dennis George western saddle --all I changed was the breast collar and have had no issues with it.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:07 am

Do you have a link for the Dennis George Saddles? I've got an issue with the saddle we are using on my wife's M Fox Trotter. He's wide at the withers (nickname Diesel) and short backed. We're using an Amish that's uncomfortable for the rider and something she bought from a company in Iowa that's uncomfortable for the horse. It's no Lazyboy for the rider either.

We've got a problem with her too. She had a bit of an experience and a near wreck with a TW a couple years ago. I got rid of that horse and bought the MFT but she is still real nervous in the saddle. Horses pick up on these things pretty quick. So I thought if I got a better fitting saddle and one that might make her a little more secure in it she might get back to riding sooner. Or at all, really. She fools with the horse but she can barely stay on him more than about 15 minutes and she's so wired up she has to quit riding. She's done over with nervousness.

She'll probably never ride again but I want to give it one last try.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Karen » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:03 pm

If you're looking for a trooper, Haggis is the way to go for a short-backed, wide horse. Just ask for a wide or xtra wide tree. Their tree is 3 inches shorter than a tucker or heskett tree. Makes a HUGE difference for a short backed horse.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:39 pm

Thanks, Karen. I didn't know that. I'll check into it.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by SeniorCoot » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:09 pm

Dennis George, G Bar G Bronc Saddles, Riverton,Wy.
original # 307-865-4717 now have in my notes-672-9096 and contact Toby J. I believe Dennis is retired or almost so and Toby is either an employee or his son who I know is working there now. before I bought our saddles I spent two days in Riverton, learning about Dennis, his saddles, and saddle making in general. He has make many saddles for bronc riders incl Ty Murray. As i stated above my saddles are NOT made esp for TW but were originally on my Quarter horses and now used very well on my TW's.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:36 pm

Thanks, Coot.
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by SeniorCoot » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:14 pm

De nada--Say have you ever eaten at the Uranium Cafe in Grants-It is not what it used to be but I loved their Gr Chili-yrs ago.

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:25 pm

No. I've been through the Museum with the Underground Mine you can tour. My younger brother worked the Uranium mines in the late 70's so it was really interesting. He used to describe what he did but I got a lot better feel for it going through the tour.

There is a new restaurant there in Grants called uh, someone's Kitchen that has really good Mexican Food. I've eaten there a couple of times and now make it a point to eat there when in town. They've got a pretty nice golf course out by the Green Houses and the Women's Prison too.

I think you get the best Mexican in Gallup tho...

Did you do the museum?
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by SeniorCoot » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:47 am

Did not do the Museum--I was first in Grants years ago when hunting elk on the Laguna Res. at that time the cafe was operated as a restaurant-- Then just a couple of years ago my wife and i took a road trip in late Jan/ Feb. We went to Roswell which was ok but they really need another bunch of UFO sightings to get back up and going--We also went through grants but the cafe was closed- I believe it is now sort of a gift shop/ sometime cafe-- We did eat at a mexican restaurant(new) and it was good but yes-I have had better in San Antonio- Junction,TX.-Uvalde,TX etc- any we digress and best get back to horses-

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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by Perdido » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:52 pm

Hey Cool!
When you went to hunt Elk on the Laguna Res did you hunt south of I-40? When you came to Grants the second time from Roswell did you come up from the Pie Town area or Socorro to NM 117 and then north?

If you did you went right by a piece I have just south of the Acoma Res. at Wild Horse Canyon. It is really spectacular there with the rock formations and the lava flows. Some "bleep" big elk in there too.

I've thought it might be fun to pack and ride a horse through the Malapai from the Ventana over to Hole in the Rock or from Viejo west to the Info Center on NM 53. You could go north off of NM 117 to Hole in the Rock too.

Did you get a nice Elk?
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Re: Keeping a horse?

Post by SeniorCoot » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:14 pm

Ok now small worlod kicks in--I came from Albequerque airport straight on Interstate--I had met a guy on the net from Soccorro who lived in a sand/tire house - I lived in AK at the time- he brought camp/ food etc and knew the area--we had a great time- i had alreadt killed one elk that fall so was looking for a real big boy to come down from Mt( senior moment) turned down a med 6x6 first day and several 5's during hunt- went home happy but with no elk--had a friend who cooked for Ross Johnson when he had lease on Acoma res-and yes their are some really big elk there.

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