Horse questions.

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Ruffshooter
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Horse questions.

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:28 am

What horse would you get for trials?
How old?
How much would you spend?
What would you call the level of training that would be a trial horse? (trail riding)
Male or female? Ghelding, stallion, mare or fixed female ( forgive my lack of knowledge)
How much hay does a horse eat in a year. (No pasture yet) 34 acres of woods.
What would be an average cost of yearly vet bills for a horse?
Where would you look to buy a respectful, healthy horse, from an honorable person?
When traveling with a horse, how often do you have to stop for them?
Is there an average for Ferrier service?

Is there anything else to know?

Well, I quess learning to ride would be a major thing to accomplish if having a horse. :wink:

Thanks,
Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Karen
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by Karen » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:42 am

What horse would you get for trials? One that is already a trial horse
How old? ideally 8-15 yrs old
How much would you spend? up to $5000
What would you call the level of training that would be a trial horse? (trail riding) find an experienced handler's horse. Check with pros in your area that are selling off one too old to keep on their string or find someone getting out and buy his horse.
Male or female? Ghelding, stallion, mare or fixed female ( forgive my lack of knowledge) Gelding
How much hay does a horse eat in a year. (No pasture yet) 34 acres of woods. Can't help with this one...I board mine
What would be an average cost of yearly vet bills for a horse? Depends on your vet. I pay around $150 total for spring & fall shots and coggins. Many shots you can do yourself to save money
Where would you look to buy a respectful, healthy horse, from an honorable person? Just be careful, work from recommendations if you can, and buy contingent on a satisfactory vet check
When traveling with a horse, how often do you have to stop for them? I stay within a 4 hour radius of home and do not stop
Is there an average for Ferrier service? I pay $85 for a trim and front shoes every 6 weeks. I pull shoes in the winter.



Now for a story. I was told to buy a 8-15 yr old gelding and to make sure I ride that horse at a field trial before buying. I didn't. I went to a sale barn in PA who was advertising a 5 yr old 14.3hh grade TWH for $1200. I bought him after taking only 6 riding lessons in my life, and I fought with that horse for the next 2 years. I also had TONS of help from friends at field trials who would ride him until he was tired enough for me to handle, who got him REALLY gun broke, who taught him patience, who urged me to keep him, and who made him a first class handler's horse. Without all that help, he'd have hurt me. I wouldn't sell him for the world now (it'll be 3 yrs next month that I've owned him), but if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't. I'd buy that nice, experienced 8-15 yr old gelding.

Hope this helps!
Last edited by Karen on Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gar-dog
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by gar-dog » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:39 am

You know, I toy with this idea to add more fuel to my obsession. After all, you only live once, right? Do wranglers ever sell horses? What about an older horse from a trail riding operation?

Ruff, I rode a few braces in a gallery this year and it was a lot of fun. Maybe to get started, take some riding lessons locally to get comfortable and confident on horseback, and only enter trials where you know there will be a Wrangler, and just rent a horse for your brace, and maybe one or two before yours to get used to the horse a bit. Do this for a season before taking the plunge. I think I paid $10 per brace.

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wbockman
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by wbockman » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:17 pm

Definately follow Karen's advice.

Check and see if you can find a barn in your area where you can take some beginner riding lessons that will also teach you horsemanship.

Things like how to make sure you saddle fits your horse, how to make sure your tack is adjusted properly, how much horses eat and what, etc.

Gar-dog - if you decide to look for a horse let me know. I'm in eastern PA near where Karen and I train and I am an experienced horse person. I'd be happy to give you a hand finding a horse and trying it out for you. I've done it for other people in the past. It's too bad I didn't know Karen back when she bought her horse because I would have steered her away from the stable where she bought, I know those people and would avoid buying from them.

Wendy

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Karen
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by Karen » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:25 pm

Ah Wendy....hindsight is 20/20. But he sure taught me how to ride! I can sit a spin with the best of them now! :D Next field trial you're at you'll need to take him out for a brace...sit back, give him a little cluck, and enjoy the nice smooth ride (trust me....WAY better than the wrangler horse).

But in all honesty, it could have been disasterous. My horse has a very good head on his shoulders and is a saint for tolerating me the first couple of years. I got very lucky.
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by wbockman » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:43 pm

Karen wrote:Ah Wendy....hindsight is 20/20. But he sure taught me how to ride! I can sit a spin with the best of them now! :D Next field trial you're at you'll need to take him out for a brace...sit back, give him a little cluck, and enjoy the nice smooth ride (trust me....WAY better than the wrangler horse).

But in all honesty, it could have been disasterous. My horse has a very good head on his shoulders and is a saint for tolerating me the first couple of years. I got very lucky.
That would be fun! He is quite a nice boy. But yes you are lucky because Green x Green normally = Black + Blue! :D

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Re: Horse questions.

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:11 pm

Ruff -

The other posters have given it to you straight.

I would add that my hoses eat about 25#(1/2 bale) of good quality hay per day as well as about 5# of pelleted feed, each split into two servings...morning and evening.

The age and expereince of the horse is important but the most important thing is the temperament of the horse itself. You want a horse that is smooth, sound, safe and sane.

The gaited horse is the horse for people who do not know how to ride. There are may different gaited horse but the two most popular in the field trial game are Tennessee Walkers and Missouri Foxtrotters.


There is a whole lot more.

RayG

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Re: Horse questions.

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:37 pm

Ruff -

Thought of a few more things you should know.

It's not exactly a vet bill but your horse should be seen by an equine dentist(not a vet who does dentistry as a sideline, but a real horse dentist) at least once a year. Horses need their teath "floated" or smoothed doiwn with a rasp to eliminate shapr edges and such. If the horse is patured perhaps twice a year. The bit is your control mechanism and it is in the horse's mouth and if their mouth hurts, it is not going to be happy about you pulling and tugging on a sore mouth. That costs about $40 - 70 a visit, depending on what needs to be done. It is well, well worth it.

Farrier charges vary, depending on the locality. In central DE it costs me $25 per horse to have 4 feet trimmed. It costs $50 per horse to have a trim and two shoes in the front, which is what I do. I suppose shoes all around would be $75. In central NJ, five years ago, it was considerably higher for exactly the same work.

A horse is a thousand pound animal that is afraid of everything. They are a prey animal and survived since Eohippus by fleeing at the first sign of danger. They also have an IQ of your shoe size. You really, really need to be careful about which horse to buy.

I have my five "S's"... Smooth, sound, strong, safe and sane.

You want a horse that, above all will not freak out at...litereally...the drop of a hat, or a gunshot or a plastic bag wafting along on the breeze or an orange fence that comes into view around a blind corner. You want a horse that will not, under any circumstance, kick at or bite at a dog. Some horses just plain flat do not like dogs. Avoid them. If a horse has a tie down in the front, that is probably because it rears. Walk...no... RUN away. That can get you killed.

You want a horse that neck reins because you can turn the horse with one hand. When field trialing, you will often have something else in your other hand.

You want a horse that will park out, ground tie and absolutely, positively stand absolutely still while you are mounting, even if all the other horses are thundering away. in fact, you want a horse that will stand still when you want it to stand still...for as long as you want it to stand still. Some finds and flushing attempts may take five minutes or more. a horse that dances around is distracting to the dog and is not appreciated by anyone.

Roading a dog looks easy when it is done right, but it is a fairly complicated dnace that can go very wrong in a heartbeat. The horse has to be tolerant of a roipe running across its chest, and also tolerant of having the rope bump it in the bit shank(happens all the time). Most importantly the horse has to have enough sense to stand still and not panic if the dog runs around behind the horse and ties it(and you) n a knot. The ropw will wrapover your leg, effectiviely tying you to the horse. If the horse stands quietly you can disengage the rope, climb down and reorgainize everyting. If the horse panics, it may well kill the dog and just might fall over with you still attached. If that happens a broken leg is about the BEST outcome you can hope for.

The horse has to be thoroughly conditioned to the rope across all parts of its body, but especially around its legs and under its tail.

I bought my first horse from a plantation down south about 8 years ago. He was 4 years old, smooth and strong. He was a little bit of a scaredy cat(still is) but I thought it would be manageable. Plenty of folks told me I spent waaaay too much money. I put him with a dog pro until I could get my act together and in eight months, I got back a dog horse. I could road dogs off him, handle off him, scout off him and he could run down a dog and stop it or turn it. All I had to do was hang on. If I wanted to know where the dog was, sometimes all I had to do was let the horse have its head and he would look to where the dog was. He was watching and listening all the time and his eyes and ears are waaaay better than mine. I can ride him four or more hours a day, day in, day out. I can sit in the saddle from the first brace of the day as the mist is clearing to the last brace of the day when the shadows are lengthening and his gait is so smooth that I can actually still walk straight when I get off. I stil have him and Blackie and we will probably retire from field trials together. Not a year goes by that someone asks me if he is for sale. He is not a perfect horse. He has his flaws, but he makes me look like I know what I am doing and I am a really lousy rider.

So did I spend too much? I don't think so.

Folks will buy a horse for $1500 that is rank, untrained and barely rideable. They will then put that horse in a boarding stable and pay $300 a month or more. In a year's time they paid out more than twice what the horse is worth, in board.

With dogs it costs the same to feed a champion as it does a mutt. Horses are the same in that respect but a dog only has a useful hunting life of ...at best...ten years or so...most not even that long. I, or my son or daughter-in-law will, in all likelihood still be riding Blackie when he is 24 and he will still be walkin' on just fine.

RayG













I

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:46 pm

Thanks all:

I saw a Missouri Fox Trotter this weekend. Frank Pride owns him. Nice looking horse and certainly does not like being left behind. That horse sure knew the routine.

I have a lot to think about. I want to compete more and it seems beyond the dogs I may need to head in this direction.

Someone once told me that the best riding animal and one of the most fool proof was mule that half of it was out of Walker stock. Any truth to that. The stubborn as a mule comes to mind and seeing Festus's mule kickin up a storm comes to mind. :)

Nothing will happen until spring at this point. But I will start my research and search now.

Side note can't seem to find any info on the trials coming up in Maine and CT. Specifically 9/20 weekend in CT. Any contact info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Re: Horse questions.

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:16 pm

Ruffshooter -

check out this link

http://www.akc.org/events/search/

select the timeframe you are interested in, select field trial and select the states. A listiung will come up. Be advised that the order in which the stakes are listed on the AKC website is NOT the order in which they will be run. You need to consult the actual premium or contact the trial chair or secretary.

FWIW -

A friend of mine has a Foxtrotter who is without question one of the strongest, smoothest horses I have ever ridden...and he is up there in years...well into his twenties.

RayG

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Re: Horse questions.

Post by Blue Dawn Kennel » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:28 pm

Rick everyone here is along the right lines for sure. I'll just give you an example using myself. We'll buy some young 2-3 yr. old geldings that are either green broke or need broke, we'll break them out and then start training and trialing off of them. Myself I'll ride a horse for a few seasons and then get board with the horse and sell it, now my husband once he has a good one he likes to keep them till their getting some age then either find a younger one or take one that I've been working. I've sold a few horses to a couple nice ladies in Conn., I've also sold to people in Washington, and Calif. as well as all over the midwest. We use only geldings and their ages will range from 2-8 yrs. old. I'd definately pay the extra money for a horse that is already been around the block and knows all about field trialing, saves alot of hassle and time and hospital bills. As for buying from wranglers I know some wranglers with some really great horses and will tell you the truth about them and I've seen some that like to not tell you quite everything and have to ace the horse and then when bought and got home after a few days of good grain & hay & pasture and no ace the horses is a terror. Just make sure to talk to reputable people when buying. Also as someone had stated you wanna make sure once you get your horse that you have either a trooper saddle or a gaited horse saddle so as not to sore your horses back (be careful have seen some troopers sore horses because they didn't fit them right) JFYI. We always busy Tennesse Walkers and Missouri Foxtrotters although I'm known to have a few Spotted Saddle horses as well (course their Walking horse blood) those are just our preferences.
Best of luck on your search and always be careful, is wise if you know of a field trialer that knows their stuff to take them along as well to help you out.
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Karen
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by Karen » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:45 pm

Rick,here's a link to the premium for the trial on 9/20

http://clubs.akc.org/brit/ClubPremiums/ ... T_fall.pdf
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by Vonrommel » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:05 pm

All good info so far! Wish I had listened to the people that told me the same stuff years ago, but I've got two good ones now so it all worked out.
About all I can add is in response to the statement below. Don't buy a horse because it's pretty and don't buy a horse that won't go away from the pack easily. You'll need to go away from the gallery to look for a dog, or return to the clubhouse with your dog after picking it up at some point and time, it's a given. It sure is easier to ride away from the pack on one that's willing! I've had to get off the horse and walk it away before because it didn't want to leave the pack and it's much easier to ride the horse than walk it and the dog back! Wouldn't go there again. Herd bound horses are no fun!



[quote="Ruffshooter"]

I Nice looking horse and certainly does not like being left behind.

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Horse questions.

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:33 am

Thanks again.
Thank you for the links.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Re: Horse questions.

Post by daddyfid » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:59 am

Ruffshooter,

THE PAST!
My wife and I are extremely inexperience when it comes to horses. Over the last 4 years we have been taken 2 times by horse traders. Over these 4 years we have bought 4 quarter horses from the ages of 4 to 16. They all rode great before we bought them and after we got them home they became dangerous. They were all advertised as being dead broke but every one of the horses would buck and rear. My wife ended up getting thrown off and snapping her arm on the last horse. After this accident I tore down all the fencing and swore off horses.

THE PRESENT!
About 5 months ago the wife and I got interested in field trials and fell in love with the game. After watching a few trials we bought a pup and then we started looking for a horse again (even though I hated horses at that time). After about 2 months looking for a horse I came across and individual who had a 18 year old horse that has been to trials for the last 15 years. Still not sure if I should trust this person. I started calling everybody I knew that ran dogs to see if they knew of the individual selling the horse. Every person that I spoke with that knew the seller all stated that she is very honest and would not sell a horse to get us hurt. This is what I needed!!!!!! A horse that has experience and multiple people that knows the individual selling the horse. We bought Clifford about 3 months ago and he is the best thing that could happen to our family. He has allowed us to regain our confidence, he takes care of his riders, he is great with kids and dogs.

To answer some of the questions with the few experiences that I have.
1)Clifford is a TWH and he is 100 times smoother that the quarter horses that we had.
2)Clifford is 18 years. I had other individuals tell me not to buy him because he is to old. He is just right for us. He is experienced, safe and sound. Even if he lives only a few more years he was well worth the money. I also just bought our second horse from the same individual. He is 5 years old and has been trialing for the last 3 years. Again, I trust the seller :D
3)We bought Clifford for $2,000 and the horse I just bought is $4,000.
4)The Ferrer in our area (Missouri) charges $95.00 to clip and re shoe all for feet.

Good luck on finding the right horse.

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Re: Horse questions.

Post by tenbearsviz » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:28 pm

Rick,

I wanted to share a recent experiance that may offer a tad of insight on your choice of horses.

I have been trialing off my own horses for about 4 years. Last year I sold my best horse because he was a slug and I had to nag him to keep him going. Anyway, I have a new horse. He is big and has some wheels. I have been riding all summer without dogs in order to get used to him. Great horse. Great gait. Easy keeper. Last weekend I took him out on dogs for the first time. First blast on my whistle and he decided he only needed two legs to stand on. I yelled to my gun dog to get him back on course and the horse spun like top wondering what beast had landed on his back. First blank pistol, he thought I was shooting him.

Ya... my old horse spoiled me... but he learned he game. I am back to step one with the new horse with all sorts of desensitizing games.

Lesson learned. If you dont have the time or inclination to train your horse to play the game, find one that already knows it.

So if you notice someone in central Florida blowing a whistle, swinging a check cord, shooting a blank gun and being followed by a huge horse with his eyes open like a great white shark, that be me.

Don

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Re: Horse questions.

Post by gar-dog » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:42 pm

HAH! Funny story. Whoever said horses are fraidy-cats are so right, eh?

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Re: Horse questions.

Post by Wagonmaster » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:52 pm

Just probably repeating what Ray Gubernat said. A horse needs a half bale of hay a day, and a scoop of grain. Grass hay is the best. TWH's normally will not need sweet feed, just plain oats, unless you are working them hard all day. Then switch to sweet feed.

I have always fed mine grass hay (during the winter, during the summer they are just on pasture). Two years ago there was not grass hay to be found around here, so I fed them an alfalfa mix, and they got fat on it, and irritable.

Of course, they also need plenty of water.

Acreage for pasture varies widely depending on where in the country you are and how good your grass is. Up here, 1-2 acres per horse seems to work fine. Our horses are on pasture with no grain or sweet feed from sometime in May through sometime in Sept. We always keep a few bales over the summer though, in case it gets too dry in Aug. and Sept. and we have to start haying them.

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