Training to "Ground Tie"

[Yawallac]

Looking to find out how y'all do it. How do you train a FT horse to ground tie?

[Blue Dawn Kennel]

Yawallac~

We condition our horses to the e collar just like you would a dog. We use a dog collar connected with the e collar then put the prongs on the poll or right in front of the horses halter. You want to start our very low with the voltage as horses are really sensitive (there are some we've had a couple over almost 20 yrs. that we couldn't get the job done) Anyway when I start them out sometimes it might be just with them tied to the hitching post if they have a pawing problem or not standing still, if they don't have these problems then I saddle and bridle them up and take them out into our yard (if you have a round pen or small lot that works well too. I lead them out then tap their bit and reins and tell the to "Stand" (we use stand as not to interfere with the dogs while we're working/campaigning them) start to walk off if it starts to follow hit on the lowest working up (without freaking him out to bad) until he stops telling him to stand. After he stops I then walk back up pat him, walk him around then do the stopping, Stand but then start going someplace and leaving the horse there to stand. After a while and you should be able to tell how well your horse is taking to the process, after he'll stand while your walking around, jumping up and down, waving your arms, shushing you can then get on him ride him around then start doing it out in another area (I go our into the pasture) then go onto leaving it on him while we're training dogs, getting off and reinforceing the STAND command and work your dog(s) then walk back praise and get back on and go.
We've broke alot of horses to ground tie with this method. Just don't try to rush, to high (voltage) with it to fast.

Robbi

[Yawallac]

...put the prongs on the poll or right in front of the horses halter.

Thanks for the post. I'm not sure where you mean to place the collar.

[AHGSP]

Here you go Ross.

http://horses.about.com/od/partsofthehorse/g/poll.htm

[Yawallac]

Bruce,

That's what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure that the prongs go up by the ears. That's a pretty sensitive area. I think that I'll keep my distance...

[Greg Jennings]

Don't know myself, but have seen articles describing using the collar on the horses chest; held there by bungee cords off the saddle.

Greg J.

[Yawallac]

Thanks Greg.

[Blue Dawn Kennel]

Greg we tried the breast collar deal many many years ago and it just didn't work as well as using the collar behind their ears and teaching them the stand command. We also use this a lot (same method and teaching) on colts/horses we can't or have problems catching. It's worked out great for us and if done properly and not with extremely high voltage you'll do well or should do well. Just lots of repition as in training dogs.

Robbi

[Greg Jennings]

Thanks Robbi.

If I come across the article that I'm thinking about, I'll post the pertinent info. But with a wife that's OCD neat, I don't think I'll ever find it.

It might have been in an issue of Field Trial magazine.

Greg J.

[Yawallac]

Robbi,

Which configuration? A or B?





Thanks again for your help. It is greatly appreciated!!

[Greg Jennings]

Greg we tried the breast collar deal many many years ago and it just didn't work as well as using the collar behind their ears and teaching them the stand command. We also use this a lot (same method and teaching) on colts/horses we can't or have problems catching. It's worked out great for us and if done properly and not with extremely high voltage you'll do well or should do well. Just lots of repition as in training dogs.

Robbi

Ross,

Underlined something in Robbi's post that might help.

Greg J.

[Yawallac]

Reading helps...

Thanks buddy.

[Blue Dawn Kennel]

Yawallac~

You can either put the strap of the halter behind the e collar box or in front (just watch when it's(the halter strap) in front as if the e collar box collar is loose enough it can slide up on top of the halter strap when the horse puts his head down and then when the horse raises it's head it'll be sitting on top and make NO connection and get you no where. I just always put it behind the halter strap and make sure it isn't to loose but also not tight enough to cut off horses air. You'll also find sometimes after some wear (like while out training if you leave the set up on your horse) that with all the up and down of your horses eating the collar may slide around on his neck you just loosen and slide back up on top and your ready to go again.

Robbi

[Yawallac]

Thank you Robbi, I really appreciate your help.

[Blue Dawn Kennel]

Just glad to help someone out if I can.!!!

[High Roll-N-Angel]

Thanks for posting this. I've been wondering this myself...THANK YOU.

[ElhewPointer]

I had a buddy that couldn't get his horse to tie so he just took one rein and tied it to the saddle and the horse just walked in circles. Looked goofy as heck but he didn't go anywhere.

[jakemaster]

I had a buddy that couldn't get his horse to tie so he just took one rein and tied it to the saddle and the horse just walked in circles. Looked goofy as heck but he didn't go anywhere.

Now thats FUNNY!!!! would like to see that.

[DGFavor]

I had a buddy that couldn't get his horse to tie so he just took one rein and tied it to the saddle and the horse just walked in circles. Looked goofy as heck but he didn't go anywhere. ElhewPointer

Real common to do that. A pre-made trailer tie works well to have attached to your cinch D then just pull head back, clip trailer tie to firm attachment on halter/bridle, go work your birds. The length has got to be right though - too long and they'll figure out how to walk out straight, too short and they seem to wanna spin circles since they can't get enough slack to relieve the pressure.

[Blue Dawn Kennel]

If no one around @ a trial to hold my horse or watch him while I'm working birds (if I don't trust him) I'll tie my rein to my saddle horn. Does work well no matter how goofy it looks. Also know of people putting a small dog collar on front ankle of your horse and running like Doug said a shortened tie down to it as well.

[DGFavor]

Also know of people putting a small dog collar on front ankle of your horse

Extra dog collars are like the duct tape of bird dogging!! I just put two old ones in the trailer, one to hold the swing out saddle rack and the other for who knows what!

[Yawallac]

Duct tape.

[Blue Dawn Kennel]

Was taking some shots this morning and have a horse I'm teaching to stand to be caught as well as ground tieing. Here go.

[Yawallac]

Thank you, that makes more sense.

[Blue Dawn Kennel]

Your welcome and not a problem.

[RayGubernat]

My one horse was ground tied by a pro handler. I am pretty sure they did it without electricity.

I taught my other horse to ground tie without the e-collar. Just repetitions on the ground with the reins and a long lead(used a checkcord actually).

Neither is perfect, but they generally get it done, especially when they are tired. They are more than happy to just stand around then.

One thing that I believe bears mentioning is reinforcement. If one allows their horse to drop their head and feed while "ground tied", it will only be a matter of time before the horse begins to wander off. The horse needs to stand still and be attentive. The instant it drops its head it needs to be corrected...every time you can. A short refresher course on the basics... ground tying, parking out, backing up, turning left and right with the lead rope/reins and yielding to flank pressure left and right, every single time you throw the saddle on is not a bad idea. It also lets you know what crawled up there into that horse' s brain since the last time you rode.

RayG

[RayGubernat]

I have to relate this:

My one horse took off on me twice in the training field in the last two weeks. He initially ground tied just fine but started inching away as I was working the bird for the dog and then trotted off, leaving me and the dog high and dry. The first time he did it, i spent a couple of hours over the next few days reinforcing with a lead rope and he seemed to "get the message" . However earlier this week, he did it to me again and this time I said "Enough".

I took my DT collar set it on 10 and strapped it on his neck. I took him out into a field with nice lush grass, tied him to tree with a long lead rope and dropped the reins.

I nicked him three or four times at 10(which i could note even feel on the back of my hand) and he was startled, but he kept going back down to graze, which is a precursor to his "taking off". I moved the dial up to 15(which I could just barely feel on the back of my hand) and when he dropped his head after I "disappeared" around corner, I gave him a one second continuous stim and that really put him up on his toes. He was NOT happy at all. Let's just say I was glad I had connected the lead rope to a nylon horse collar and tie him off to a fairly substantial tree. About five minutes later, he had a half mouthful of grass when I hit him again with a 12 from hiding. He didn't drop his head for at least five minutes. If I ever need to reinforce again, i don't think I'll need more than a 10 or 12 level. When the lesson was over, I let him graze while I held the reins, but as soon as I dropped them, his head came right up.

i took him out yesterday and after tying him to a tree branch for the first two finds, I dropped the reins to go work the third bird. He was a VERY good boy...stood there at attention the whole time. He was good all afternoon. I worked three more dogs on multiple finds each and he never took a step or dropped his head. I do think I got his attention.

I had been very reluctant to use an e-collar on a horse, arond the neck because I know just how sensitive they are and I had never done it before. I still cannot believe how much of a response I got from such a very low level stim. The good news is that I never thought I would find a use for the 60 levels of stim that the rotating dial of the DT trainer puts at my disposal. The six levels from my TT were always plenty for the dogs.

I am very glad that the DT has the continuously variable level of stim.

We'll see how he does tomorrow.

RayG

[Casper]

I have a couple questions regarding this training method.

Is the stimulation a constant stimulation or is it momentary?

Can this method be used for teaching a horse to stand to mount, stand while mounted, and stopping?

[myerstenn]

continuious works better and yes on the second question (with caution) , but make sure you know how he reacts to the juice first before you try to get on him. he needs to learn what is expected before you start crawling on him .I am normally a little nervous about using it while i am on the horse.