Gun Dog Forum

Spy Car

http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html Backyard Breeder 1. Motive for breeding: "fun", "good for kids", "to make money". Does not screen buyers and seldom refuses to sell, even if buyer is unsuitable. 2. Breeds the family pet to any convenient pet of the same breed just to have purebre...

Spy Car

You all are just plain wrong in your understanding of how the term "backyard breeder" is used. From Wikipedia (that gets it right): Backyard Breeder is a general term, often considered derogatory, used in USA to describe people who breed animals, often without registration. In some cases the animals...

Spy Car

Most of you are completely clueless as to why someone would want to protect their line and who makes breedings off of it. First off, most pointing dogs are dirt cheap and there is a 101 different competitive venues so the motivation to exploit a line is limited. I can pick up a national champ x nat...

Spy Car

Reynolds is important for showing the value of of high-protein high-fat diets. And showing the inadequacy and dangers of feeding high carbohydrate rations to canine athletes. Unfortunately the industry, and many forum participants, continue to ignore (and deny) the science, which has been corroborat...

Spy Car

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:Yes but the problem is, nine of us agree on what the term means and one doesn't and he wants to be right. :roll:
I hope you aren't pointing at me.

I'm pretty sure you're cool.

Bill

Spy Car

Yes but the problem is, nine of us agree on what the term means and one doesn't and he wants to be right. :roll: You tell me what terms you all want to use for small scale ethical breeders, small scale unethical or haphazard breeders, large scale ethical breeders, and large scale unethical breeders...

Spy Car

Some might call those puppy mills. Some of the best dogs come from your so called "backyard" breeders because they can go through all of the health checks and stand behind their Get. Small scale breeders who are serious, ethical, do health checks, stand behind their dogs, and advance the breed are ...

Spy Car

Some might call those puppy mills. Some of the best dogs come from your so called "backyard" breeders because they can go through all of the health checks and stand behind their Get. Small scale breeders who are serious, ethical, do health checks, stand behind their dogs, and advance the breed are ...

Spy Car

This whole argument sounds a lot like the gun control debate. I really think if we want to get to the root of the problem is the definition many people put on backyard breeders, which is seldom true. Most of us are backyard breeders and most of our dogs came from backyard breeders. It is where most...

Spy Car

Not all Limited Reg dogs are "culls." Ethical breeders use this mechanism (along with no breed contracts) to limit individuals who have no backgrounds and expertise with a breed, know nothing of genetics and good practices, have no history of competition, etc. from taking dogs and setting up a back...

Spy Car

gonehuntin' wrote:You keep stating "Ethical Breeders" but I strongly suspect, depending on breed, there are as many "non-ethical" breeders as there are ethical.

Which is why I'm attempting to differentiate between the two.

Bill

Spy Car

s223196 wrote:well I do not play tug with her but I havent stopped my son, but she is so wild he doesnt play with her alot. she will fetch a toy and I put my hand over her nose and put my fingers in her mouth to make her let go. Is there a better way?

I'll PM you.

Bill

Spy Car

This has been a good discussion, but I'm curious if anyone can address my second question as well, other than "I wouldn't deal with them." My initial thought is that a portion of breeding is a business, which means it's just a negotiation of terms after that... Any other thoughts? The way most ethi...

Spy Car

Spy Car

Codes of Ethics don't make one ethical. I don't reckon the VCA guidelines are far off from other breeds'. But how many 'ethical' breeders come up with epilepsy or other health issues in puppies and quietly scoot them under the rug, or claim some ancestor 4 generations back in the pedigree is respon...

Spy Car

LET ME BE CLEAR, I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AGAINST IT. I HAVE WORKED WITH MANY PRO'S WHO TRAIN FIELD TRIAL RETRIEVERS AND IN THOSE 30 YEARS, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE EVERY HAD ANYONE SUGGEST 'TUG A WAR' AS A TRIED AND TRUE TRAINING TECHNIQUE. END OF MY DISCUSSION! You've been clear, but YELLING doesn...

Spy Car

This is exactly right. Spy Car: AKC and the breed clubs ethical breeding standards have absolutely nothing to do with improving breeds. As the name implies, they are about ethical treatment of animals. As you probably know AKC will give you papers on anything with registered parents. no restriction...

Spy Car

What is the difference between a subpar limited registered puppy and a fully registrable one from a puppy mill or one from a fully registered backyard craigslist breeding? Uninformed people can buy a pup from a "great" breeding that didn't quite produce, and have bragging rights to an AKC kinda-sor...

Spy Car

Trainers and competetors don't buy dog's from Craigslist and many times they don't buy them from known breeders either. When picking a breeding for themselves or a client they may buy from a breeder if they like the dire and dam or they may dugout to the backyard breeder if the guys has a competiti...

Spy Car

I didn't say they were haphazard breeding so. I stated it was a competetion proven female bred to a proven sire. There have been great dogs produced from breeding so like this. Such a person might only breed a female once every few years. I would never buy a pup where the female was not proven in c...

Spy Car

Trainers and competetors don't buy dog's from Craigslist and many times they don't buy them from known breeders either. When picking a breeding for themselves or a client they may buy from a breeder if they like the dire and dam or they may dugout to the backyard breeder if the guys has a competiti...

Spy Car

A dog with a limited registration cannot be entered in a dog show. If it is bred, the litter cannot be registered in AKC. It can be entered in hunt tests or field trials, but if it cannot be bred...what would be the point to that? I have the sense that the AKC limited registration thing is a defens...

Spy Car

I see it as a total detriment to the decelopment of quality dogs. Under limited registration now no dual champions can be made. It also assumes that a breeder knows what the heck they're doing and that many times is simply not the case. Our great dogs today are the result of being able to breed gre...

Spy Car

A wise man once said, a man whose clients are idiots, has idiots as clients

Bill

Spy Car

I see it in a somewhat different perspective. The OP is correct that outstanding ethical breeders who have invested time, money, and expertise into their lines, often importing dogs from afar, and always doing the expensive medical testing to minimize chances of passing genetic problems, have reputa...

Spy Car

Another good thing to do with a young pup is to get a really great chew, like a bully stick, they they will just love. And then you hand it to them saying "take" (or whatever), let them just start to enjoy it, say "give" and remove, give praise (take a beat) and return the chew with a "take" and mo...

Spy Car

Let me ask what difference does it make since the only true test is the condition of your dog? First, I'm not sure what is so controversial about my post. I merely explained the process to determine the caloric distribution of food. Even if all someone did was tinker with their dog's food and monit...

Spy Car

Another good thing to do with a young pup is to get a really great chew, like a bully stick, they they will just love. And then you hand it to them saying "take" (or whatever), let them just start to enjoy it, say "give" and remove, give praise (take a beat) and return the chew with a "take" and mor...

Spy Car

I will accept this when I see the pros of today do it and see what it produces. But sorry, I just am having problems due to never hearing it, seeing it, or even reading about it from anyone but someone that says he a lot of well trained dogs that he credits tug of war as a primary training method a...

Spy Car

Since my son was already studying for a math test on unit conversions rates that he's taking tomorrow, this was a great real world problem Senior Al Pastor :D For grins we did Diamond High Energy. 24.96% calories from protein. 46.79% calories from fat 28.25% calories from carbohydrates You'd think t...

Spy Car

Smart.

Bill

Spy Car

Teaching a puppy to give is the opposite of creating a problem. Failing to train puppies to give is failing to train. Training a puppy under age-approprite levels of stress, which includes training to "give" under tug conditions, leads to outstanding results. Puppies are always learning. If one is n...

Spy Car

Again, "highest levels" of what kind of training, 'cause it ain't done or encouraged in retriever training - unless, as gonehuntin' noted you're wanting to instill a problem in a dog so you can deal with it retroactively. Like teaching a dog to vocalize so you can later teach it the "Quiet!" comman...

Spy Car

Bill, I am not really taking sides as I don't see that there is much of a reason. My problem is you advising people to do it as though it is the only way to teach drop. And you are doing this after many experienced trainers have told you the problems they have encountered. Seems like that is your m...

Spy Car

[... all my dogs are trained to very advanced levels. Having a dog train to yield a tug is a good thing. It complements other training. Advanced levels of bite training? - otherwise please tell how "complementary" tuggy is to any kind of training that involves gundogs? MG Releasing to hand. Is that...

Spy Car

Bill, if the dog already knows and complies with the command indicates to me you have no idea what we are talking about, and I don't think you even understand the problem. You are trying to tell us it is OK to let a surgeon play with knives. We are saying it is not OK to let a 3 year old to play wi...

Spy Car

No one should instill a problem in a dog. Having a dog that is bonded, happy, enjoys playing with its master, and will stop an active game and "give" a tug up immediately upon command is not a dog with a "problem." Why that isn't clear to some is beyond me. There are ways to reached advanced levels ...

Spy Car

Smart trainers use tug-of-war opportunities to not only bond with their dogs and get in a bit of good exercise, but—most importantly from a "training aspect," use it as a time to teach their dog to "give." When one can amicably and instantly stop an active play session with a word, and the dog immed...

Spy Car

Maltodextrin is not used to replace or supplement any diet. It is used for a very specific purpose and it has little to do with what or how much the dog or bird is or has eaten. All it does is start very quickly the repair of the muscle. The Maltodextrin is too often being used to boost blood glyco...

Spy Car

\Bill, it is for any dog or human, no matter what they are eating immediately after heavy exercise. We have the same situation with our birds when they get home from a 300 or more mile race. We will worry about providing energy after a couple of hours and you can feed what ever you want but the imm...

Spy Car

\Bill, it is for any dog or human, no matter what they are eating immediately after heavy exercise. We have the same situation with our birds when they get home from a 300 or more mile race. We will worry about providing energy after a couple of hours and you can feed what ever you want but the imm...

Spy Car

I can't think of any commercial complete feeds that are solely starches, carbs, and simple sugars, so what is your point? The point (as Al Pastor has been explaining well) is that when dogs are fed the high-carbohydrate loads in cereal-based kibbles the fat-burning mechanism is disrupted, Dogs conv...

Spy Car

Bill, you don't seem to understand what the use of Maltodextrin is for and what it does for the body muscle recovery. It isn't used as an energy source and has nothing to do as far as an energy source and how or what the dog is fed. It just helps eliminate the soreness and stiffness associated with...

Spy Car

I don't much care about what the sled dog guys do, I care about the guys winning with pointing dogs. And those I know are using some version of maltodextrin. This is a unique question for a specific situation, and is not our usual what is the best feed debate. I don't care what the vast majority fi...

Spy Car

An 11 week old? I'd be happy.

Bill

Spy Car

This is the first time I have ever seen anyone who supposedly, knows something about gun dogs claim that playing 'tug a war' with a dog is harmless. I have been working with sporting dogs for over 25 years and all the pro's both in obedience and field training advise to NEVER play this with your pu...

Spy Car

Multiple studies have shown that feeding glucose stimulated a momentary bump in blood glucose, but then the dogs fade and lose energy. This is the opposite effect of feeding appropriate levels of fat, which is a source of sustained energy for dogs. You see the same results in the field. Dogs were sh...

Spy Car

There are plenty of games I would rather play with a young dog than tug of war. I have done it in the past with pups and young dogs but no longer. It can be fun, but the reason I stopped is that I cannot see where it will help anything and it may well cause problems down the road. RayG There's no g...

Spy Car

ezzy333 wrote:
Spy Car wrote:There is absolutely nothing wrong with tug-of-war, and—in fact—it gives one a great opportunity to teach "give."

Bill
Sorry, I lost my head for a moment. I was going to say more but then when I find it is absolute there is nothing more to say.

That's certainly cryptic.

Bill

Spy Car

There is absolutely nothing wrong with tug-of-war, and—in fact—it gives one a great opportunity to teach "give."

Bill

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