Gun Dog Forum

Swampbilly

Your dog is not looking out or marking downfield because bumpers simply don't make it "downfield" coming from your side hand thrown. Hopefully your dog is watching and looking at the bumper when it leaves your hand and stays focused on it even after it hits the ground, ( whether beside you or not)....

Swampbilly

Nuthin' in the world wrong with a set up that'll get pup to check in, but you're interested, ( if I read right) in enhancing pups marking skills. You want your dog to trust it's eyes . , not so much relying on it's nose to find marks in a featureless field with no cover. If it were me, I'd not worry...

Swampbilly

Polmaise, I already stated I'm unwilling to pay for a launcher. There's no speculation necessary. Perhaps you don't realize how little a hand held launcher costs? They are an exceptionally good way to teach marking because: 1) By varying the loads, you can vary the distance the bumper flies. 2) You...

Swampbilly

Dogs that don't quite understand all the mechanics of a hand delivery will, upon approaching the handler on a return, "bobble" an object in it's mouth in preparation to release it- ...where ever it wants to.
Five commands come to mind-
HERE, (and then HEEL by your side and SIT),
HOLD
&
DROP.

Swampbilly

Explain the stake out to me please. I have a prong collar i may try it to see how she reaponds. But if that dont get ill do the stake. Pound a stake into the ground with a thick chain leash . Tie the dog to it. Go in the house. Let the dog learn that he can't win over the leash, so might as well gi...

Swampbilly

Dog has been collared trained. FF went great and I did it myself with a help from some trainers. I haven't used any collar pressure yet but I have thought of it to stop the crunching. [/b] No (NO!!) Don't think of that anymore. If anything - Re-enforce HERE on a return in an effort to take away tim...

Swampbilly

Dog has been through ff and has been doing great but recently he has been playing with birds and started crunching birds on the retrieve. Any ideas how to fix this. I have taken a step backwards and re did ff but It only fixed the playing with birds and not the crunching. He has always been a soft ...

Swampbilly

Sharon's right. You say it once and reinforce it. A few weeks back I called my dog back inside from the deck door. She ran halfway and stopped, balking on the command. I walked outside without shoes or socks in my bathrobe to enforce the command. My feet were only momentarily cold, but she hasn't d...

Swampbilly

'Lemme give this a whirl- HOLD is fairly parallel with HEEL in terms of a command that slowly, silently, becomes somewhat "non existent", yet heard enough, and taught enough to the point where the dog doesn't really forget it. That's why HEEL sometimes is better off left alone until HERE is well und...

Swampbilly

Scsims- Agree with the others. Nice job 8) Great sense of timing! You LET the dog HOLD for longer than .0005 seconds congratulations! You'd be surprised as to how many folks are taking the object before the dog ever gets a steady hold on it, and some are so nervous they fly right through the process...

Swampbilly

Wondering why you guy's think that? Because it will invite a puppy to have a pup sicle, i.e., chewing on a frozen bird, or else their teeth can be sensitive to something frozen, i.e., the bird, and they may spit it out and you can't blame them for doing so. If you're going for the trifecta of "why ...

Swampbilly

crackerd wrote:
And OP, you never (never!) (never!!) want to use frozen birds for retrieving exercises.

MG

Amen (Amen!), AMEN!!

Swampbilly

Agree with Gonehuntin' 8) If it ain't broke don't fix it kinda' thing. Would offer up this though- Sounds like "Zippy" might could use a little Zip on a return, which may take away the time to even think about gettin' mouthy. Re-enforce HERE in the yard, get it crisp, then bring Obedience and retrie...

Swampbilly

What Gonehuntin' said 8) To add a little- Don't get caught up in a "routine" of casting your dog to the same place, MIX up your casts.You don't want him anticipating which way you'll cast him, even if it means casting to a different pile other than the last bumper thrown. Once he gets a grasp you sh...

Swampbilly

No. Sounds like a clerical error on the title, (happens from time to time :wink: ), that's not FF. Am waiting for the day when methods include placing the dog in a room with a set of ear buds listening to a 2hr DVD motivational that lectures the dog on reasons why it should retrieve, count to three,...

Swampbilly

Could be I ain't gettin' the whole picture - if you've got good lead control and timing, I don't understand how pup is getting too far ahead

Swampbilly

I worked at a kennel in Ca. where we ran 120 dogs in training. I don't remember how many dog lovers came and went that wanted to be trainers but couldn't "cut it". There is a huge difference between being a dog lover and a dog trainer. See what you did... The "dog lovers" worked with you for a week...

Swampbilly

Read several posts on here, don't know if I'm just gettin' old and grumpy but hey- Won't tell you anything now that wouldn't say 30 yrs ago- Tie up your dawg to a stake so he can learn to obey an 18" piece of wood driven in the dirt,, or get the dog in the yard and teach it some Obedience, (with re-...

Swampbilly

Is that the appropriate coarse of action for me to take in this scenario? I don't want to make him clam up more by just pinching his ear harder. Also on a related note, we'll go through stretches where he will fetch perfectly multiple times in a row and continue to do so even without the ear pinch....

Swampbilly

DonF wrote:Hardest thing you have to overcome is all the birds you already shot over it. That will probably take awhile.

Don-
'Splain it

Guessing you mean all the birds shot that weren't picked up

Swampbilly

Not to even think about disputing what a wise 'ole trainer is offering up by any stretch, but... I'd want to consider what the marking and handling skills of that 3 yr old dog are presently, before I'd get my hopes up on an immediate accomplishment of an MH- -- high drive of birds or not. What I'm s...

Swampbilly

She has done ear pinch, collar fetch, walking fetch, and FTP out to about 60 yards. Not going to lie since hunting season has started I have slowed down in it but I do still work with her on a regular basis. The main reason I was concerned is she is normally goes crazy for any thing with feathers. ...

Swampbilly

When you mention "she had been FF'd" , does that mean your dog has completed every single component of FF', (?)-- i.e. initial Force Ear Pinch, Collar FETCH, walking FETCH , Stick Fetch, Pile work, ( FTP?) etc. Keep in mind that while FF' brings many lasting attributes to the table, there still need...

Swampbilly

Hey Don- Thanks for this thread! Know what I just find absolutely incredible (?) (And know you vowed not to respond to posts so it's all good!) That a fella' submits that in 40 yrs of Pointin'Dawgs that they were ALL apparently born into this world staunch, ...steady to flush, steady to shot, .. ste...

Swampbilly

Hopefully one who elects to FF' their dawg understands that it's a vocation better served without huge gaps in the training process. Am reminded of a fella' who was frustrated with FF' , " been pinching an ear for 6 weeks" and dog" still won't FETCH when commanded to." Later discovered in that 6wk p...

Swampbilly

It's a real , (real), tuff job to diagnose some of the problems that may arise in FF, but couple things that seem to be happening- Your dog may be exhibiting some avoidance behavior and sounds like it's possible that she may dread the sessions with a "here we go again"attitude. There's no "thinking ...

Swampbilly

Dotti I'd 2nd Gonehuntins' suggestions. Sometimes the better Rx is the more practical and if nothing else, re-enforcement on your HERE command can take away the time a dog has in his life to screw around to lolygag back on a return, even if it doesn't completely resolve that issue. Something caught ...

Swampbilly

She is force fetched (never force fetched with birds though went through hold, walking hold, ear pinch - reaching - to ground - walking fetch, force to pile. She loves retrieving from water. Didnt need to FF with dove and quail, the FF with bumper carried over well to those birds, but ive hunted he...

Swampbilly

Try holding a block of ice in your mouth for a while. That's what you're asking a dog when you use frozen birds. I would imagine a force-broke dog might do it for fear of punishment, but not very likely if he had a vote in the matter. I wonder how much more success you might have if you thawed that...

Swampbilly

Lost internet connection,..grrr :x The worst that can happen is souring the dog on retrieving in general, and equally important- on birds. . Didn't see in this thread anywhere that the dog has been Pressure Conditioned or CC'd, perhaps I missed the boat on that. Don't believe Danny and co. Would use...

Swampbilly

Careful using a lot of pressure with birds and marks, both ear pinch and collar pressure. If your dogs' not Pressure Conditioned properly, ( and Collar Conditioned), leave pressure alone. Your fear is that the dog would associate the pressure with the bird. The dog has already been CCed and FFed, s...

Swampbilly

Careful using a lot of pressure with birds and marks, both ear pinch and collar pressure.
If your dogs' not Pressure Conditioned properly, ( and Collar Conditioned), leave pressure alone.

Swampbilly

did a lot of retriever training with my gsp over the summer. Shes doing really well with the buma while.arks, blinds, and water. Took her dove hunting and it did not carry over to the dove which i suspected. So i froze a few. Worked her a few times with them and she did great after a few sessions. ...

Swampbilly

Started him on force fetch but once I started forintoing him to pick up off the ground felt like I was going backwards. He will fight it. he doesn't respond well to the needed pressure. Mr. Evan Graham will get you pointed in the rigjt direction! Want to point out MM, is that going from one concept...

Swampbilly

Hello Jegan, Here is a video I did a while ago using what I call my "Packleader" leash. It works great for young dogs in getting them to understand my claiming of space. I don't use it as obedience or a "heel" command. Dogs don't understand that. What they do understand, is a dog (or human) that si...

Swampbilly

I've seen some comments recently concerning my posts. Seems some take issue with my comments concerning how and what a dog may be thinking at specific times. Virtually everyone would agree that reading a dog is the most important element of successful training. That means taking note of his reactio...

Swampbilly

But What are some ways u get ur pups really fired up about training? Keep it fun 'Fitz. Praise for success, and challenge your pup on marks that you know he can be successful on. Pay attention to what's been mentioned in terms of countless meaningless marks. When pup gets bored- you've long overdon...

Swampbilly

Seems like it should be the other way 'round- you'd think pup would run off with that juicy stick a distance and lay down to chew on it. If it were me ( depending on your goals w/the dog) , I'd consider dumping the stick stuff and get pup weaned off of that. Sticks are economical..but are mighty har...

Swampbilly

Thinking of FF my dog. She will find birds but he ha's on the way back with a victory lap behind me. What is the best program that you guys use? What are some of the mistake that you have come across? If I mess up will she shut down all retrieving? She is a 2 1/2 year old EP. Thanks Mistakes I've m...

Swampbilly

Unless you plan on competing with your dog, what matter does a victory lap make before giving it to you? At some point she'll quit the victory lap and get you the bird just to get on to the next bird. Something to keep in mind, is in AF they don't retrieve. In AKC it's little more than a pass or fa...

Swampbilly

Knee to the chest works. It's not so much about "how hard" to knee the pup, it's a lot about surprising the pup with the unexpected. You don't have to knee the pup into the next zip code, If properly timed , (and consistently doing it), pup will simply get sick and tired of falling arse over teacups...

Swampbilly

Agree w/ Sharon, as long as pup understands the command, and has been properly CC'd use it to re-enforce. The message to the dog is that you go no-where if you pull on the lead..period. So when it starts you stop walking and when pup stops the pulling you proceed. Keep in mind that while HEELING is ...

Swampbilly

Here's the thing- You can collar condition your dog prior to FF'. I personally struggled with that idea for a long time before doing it. If you CC' your dog PRIOR to FF', 'ya don't have to STOP what you're doing in the middle of the pressure conditioning process in order to Collar Fetch. It makes a ...

Swampbilly

I have my EP on a CC for 2 1/2 years. I am ready to advance to E collar. I guess I am asking what not to do. I hunted last year with a buddy that had a 9 month GSP. All he did was yell and push the button. I have come to far for that type of training. She is trained on whistle and comes on command....

Swampbilly

Haven't ever tried using the duckcall for SIT, but did try a hand signal for DOWN. But from a distance my signal looked too much like BACK!, it got too frustrating for me. ( more than likely" operator error" :wink: ). So we just train SIT ,with whistle and verbal, proof and re- enforce with plenty o...

Swampbilly

Tell 'ya - I'm a poor man, but would pay real good money to know what Codswallow is 8) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Polmaise (????) :?: If you think about the words that make it up, I think you can figure it out. Hint, a codpiece covers the groin area of a male, and I think you know what swallow means. It u...

Swampbilly

Tell 'ya - I'm a poor man, but would pay real good money to know what Codswallow is

Polmaise (????)

Swampbilly

How do you persuade a would be gundog trainer that "positive only" training is not necessarily the best way to train all gundogs ? Bill T. Well...'Trek, to be quite frank- 'ya don't. And that comes from someone whos' had the opportunity to train both ways. You've got to pick and choose your "battle...

Swampbilly

Does sound rather odd on that Uplandish, hard to say. Am in the FF' camp as with others on here as an Rx, however if the dog was already properly FF'd and collar trained, you might could get a perfectly timed correction in to HERE on a return the millisecond the dog starts to show signs of inhaling ...

Swampbilly

You really have a tough one here. There is no honest trainer out there that will guarantee to you that they can cure a bird eater. A lot of dogs have been sent to the bone yard because they committed the second greatest sin a bird dog can commit: eating the bird he's been bred to pursue. The greate...

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