Gun Dog Forum

EvanG

Just in case there are dog trainers lurking here I thought I'd cast some food for thought.

1. Do you force fetch?

2. Why do you force fetch?

3. What do you hope to gain from force fetching?

4. How do you go about it?

EvanG

EvanG

Do all you can to foster desire for birds, starting now. But stay with a passive procedure like the one in the video clip. Don't make a big deal of it, and certainly don't put pressure on your pup. But expose him to birds in a way that will create and promote desire for birds, which is the source of...

EvanG

chrisss wrote:When I use real birds or wings then my pup goes out and retrieves it but stops half way of returning or doesn't return and start to chew. Should I pull him in with a check cord?

Yes, but don't drag him. Use tugs in tandem with the verbal command to come. How old is this dog?

EvanG

EvanG

This sounds like a job for a check cord, and a real bird. But use both wisely. Most pups can be enticed to come without the check cord, but it doesn't hurt to just let them drag one until it's needed.

Take all the time it takes.

EvanG

EvanG

I havent forced fetched or any training like that yet. He has had basic obidience and some collar work. He responds great to here and is steady at heel before he is sent on a retrive. Still needs a lot of work. I have been using the books "water dog" and "ten minute retriever" for help along with o...

EvanG

I have a 6 mo old black lab who I am going to hunt waterfowl with. Have had him since 7 weeks and is coming along great. Started collar work and obedience is fairly strong as well. I have been using a remote launcher to get him accustomed to look out in front as well as work on steadiness. I live o...

EvanG

To me it appears that ear pinch wasn't taken far enough. Sure the dog may know how to release pressure through compliance, but there is more to it than that. He does not appear to have attained sharp responses in that process, but then went on to CC, and he wasn't ready. The collar is more likely to...

EvanG

The dog also understands the concept of shutting off the pressure. By the OP description not sure his dog does even after a month of training :( And that's what I told him privately by email. My suggestion was starting over with a good program, and make sure the dog really understands all aspects. ...

EvanG

The dog also understands the concept of shutting off the pressure. By the OP description not sure his dog does even after a month of training :( And that's what I told him privately by email. My suggestion was starting over with a good program, and make sure the dog really understands all aspects. ...

EvanG

And it looks like this.

EvanG

EvanG

Should you keep using the e-collar? I wouldn't. Force fetch is a pressure conditioning process, and this dog does not sound like one that has a clear picture of how to turn off pressure through compliance. If you don't have solid responses with ear pinch, the e-collar has at least equal potential to...

EvanG

Did this dog have a proper water introduction previously when the water was above 50 degrees F?

EvanG

EvanG

Why don't you give me a call sometime today at 816-213-9397 and we'll match materials with your needs & budget. Or email to rushcreekpress@aol.com

EvanG

EvanG

The Smartwork system is complete, and is the most detailed program on the market. That includes a through puppy program, and all sequential steps to completely train a finished dog. One program, all the steps, and every step following the same philosophy - that makes it so much easier for both you a...

EvanG

Yes, but take your time. Get going on a proven program ASAP. That cannot be over emphasized.

EvanG

EvanG

Glad to help. MG's right, and knows his dog work. This is not a one-step easy skill. It's certainly a skill set you can train into your dog yourself, but you need the know how. If you would like to contact me via email I can lay out the materials you'll need, along with the coursework. rushcreekpres...

EvanG

I'm sure you've already seen the effects of tests... getting him worked up and degrading line manners, etc . Why risk that, and waste entry fees and travel $ when he isn't ready and reliable? Got a hunch, Evan, this ain't about training for retriever tests, but I'd sure like to know about degrading...

EvanG

After finishing a Senior title would you as a trainer prefer to move on to master quickly with minimal hunting (knowing that some slipping will occur when hunting and be "gotten away with" or would you hunt for a year or two for the things only experience can teach then tune up your dog back to the...

EvanG

It does not require a helper to do 'fetch-no-fetch' per SmartFetch. I'm not sure what Id do with one. But I'm also not sure this dog would benefit from the exercise unless she's a lot "fetch-ier" that she sounds. Sounds more like she needs to move on to pile work, and plenty of it. Throw marks for n...

EvanG

If you haven't forced on those bumpers you've missed a great deal I forced on the bumpers. We had 4 or 5 sessions of basically flawless walking fetch before I threw the 1st mark. Initially, she preferred the dowel over the bumpers on walking fetch, but I have gotten her past that & she now doesn't ...

EvanG

Keep your focus on basic principles. An e-collar is not an 'answer'. It's a tool, and a very effective one in wise hands. The answer is sound training.

EvanG

EvanG

Don, walking fetch is laying out 3 or 4 items in a line, walking past the items, & having her pickup each one as we pass it. It should be understood that Walking Fetch is not just having the dog pick up a few bumpers. If you haven't forced on those bumpers you've missed a great deal. after she did ...

EvanG

What is a walking fetch? Walking Fetch works on a standard principle of dog behavior that movement tends to disrupt a dog's concentration on a task. When a trainer has progressed through "Hold", and then to "Fetch" (either toe hitch or ear pinch) thoroughly, we then proceed to the next step, which ...

EvanG

chevyrulz wrote:I haven't forced on birds. During walking fetch, she's noticeably more willing to pickup the dowel that I used to teach hold versus the bumpers.

What force fetch program are you following?

EvanG

EvanG

Have you forced on birds prior to going to the field? There is a simple process that will prepare your dog well, but it is dependent upon how well you did your force work.

EvanG

EvanG

I have a 5 1/2 month old black lab puppy. I haven't ever trained a gun dog before, so I need some tips on getting him hooked on fetching. He is fairly interested in fetching and usually loves to have something in his mouth. I can usually get Jack to complete 4 or 5 good fetches before I quit so he ...

EvanG

...It's crazy that one day I'll FF using 20 out of 100 to barely get her attention, then the next day she's near yelping & loses focus because 20 was too high. This reading the dog thing, sure ain't easy! edit: and, I'm only trying to read 1 dog. I have a new found respect for the skill it takes to...

EvanG

Evan, Are you saying you only use the lowest setting the dog can feel for all applications? You never step up the stimulation for certain lessons? I thought (I started to write "my understanding", but don't want MG to sue me for defamation) :D , certain drills called for a bit more. Like a long cha...

EvanG

Just a little more e-collar history. Some of us who were around back then can relate to the fact that the old A1-70's were not built with the consistent quality components of today's units. Anytime we met at D.L.'s, or in any group with multiple collars, we first got out our test lights and conducte...

EvanG

gonehuntin' wrote:My clients, I believe, are still rolling on the ground over that slight "error". :roll:

Doing a spot of rolling myself!!

EvanG

EvanG

Evan, Some would argue that low level and increased intensity during collar conditioning would lead to the possibility of the dog being conditioned to accepting more intensity and pain. Can you explain in detail for the likes of me to understand Rex Carr methods on tune-up drill and Chinese water d...

EvanG

It certainly is a different world. An advert to sell lab pups in an American outdoors magazine 25-30 years ago read ...."These pups are bred to take the collar." I don't think anyone would breed for that now or advertise it if they did. I was horrified at the time and if I was offered such a pup no...

EvanG

Perhaps Evan will respond to correct the record if I am totally wrong. But it is my understanding many test pups as young as 8 weeks to establish a base point of e-collar tolerance, those that over react to low levels wash out before training even begins. I do know for a fact FC Labs are tough in e...

EvanG

Evan, Yes, I have read all your posts, not sure you have. You misspoke when you agreed about the need to feel what the dog does by testing it on yourself. And you corrected it in your last post. I thank you for your many valuable contributions, you know your stuff. Neil, Do you mean this one? I hav...

EvanG

Neil wrote:
EvanG wrote:
birdshot wrote:I have always felt ecollars could be more effective if the operator received the same juice the dog received.
Me too. I hand test every collar I buy.

EvanG
This is just wrong! People and dogs are different, as is each dog.

Neil,

Did you read my last post?

EvanG

EvanG

Folks, all animals, including humans, perceive and react differently to electricty. It is not a pain threshold issue, some are very sensitive to the stimulations, both in terms of the level and duration. This is a key consideration. But it is a point that could be made regarding any aversive. Each ...

EvanG

It's nice to see how he's grown and advanced. It appears he still needs more efficient obedience. He looks pretty loose...happy go lucky. I love "happy"! It's the 'go lucky' part that will tend to break down the more advanced work he's headed for.

EvanG

EvanG

birdshot wrote:I have always felt ecollars could be more effective if the operator received the same juice the dog received.

Me too. I hand test every collar I buy.

EvanG

EvanG

Do you think you know everything about e-collars? Love 'em? Hate 'em? Want to know more...or perhaps to know better ways to use them? never used one so I don't have a real opinion. truth is I don't need one. Nobody really needs one, Jim. Nobody needs a rope, or a leash, or even a whistle. But any a...

EvanG

Do you think you know everything about e-collars? Love 'em? Hate 'em? Want to know more...or perhaps to know better ways to use them? Far too much has been wrongly assumed, or just misunderstood about these tools for too long. As someone pointed out earlier, discussions about the e-collar often just...

EvanG

my 15 week old lab puppy is doing good sitting, staying, and coming to the whistle, but when we work on retrieving it has been frustrating. it's not that she doesn't do it at all, but we have more sessions that she's not interested at all than she is. How many retrieves do you normally throw in any...

EvanG

Neil wrote:Lighten up on yourself, we all make errors, dogs are very resilient.

That is excellent advice. Relax and enjoy the journey.

EvanG

EvanG

Evan Graham? Who and which program is this? It's called the Smartwork system; Smartwork for Retrievers. It is the most detailed and complete course for retrieving fieldwork. Check for yourself at http://www.evan-graham.net . Please let me know anytime I can be of help. http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/IfhVdm...

EvanG

OK well looks like I want everything but the puppy program!! I'll talk it over with the wife and hopefully order it next week. If you order the Total Package Special this week I'll hold the Puppy Program, and do a sketch of your dog from your favorite photo in its place. How's that? http://www.evan...

EvanG

Smartwork for Retrievers is a complete detailed system. Feel free to check it out at www.evan-graham.net and ask any questions you like.

EvanG

EvanG

How far are you from Kansas City? Perhaps I could help you personally.

EvanG

EvanG

Ok, as you can probably guess, this has to do with an e-collar. After today, I've sworn off it. After today, I'll just feel lucky if I haven't permanently ruined my dog. I have a 9 month old Lab, Maverick. I've been following "Tom Dokkens - Gun Dog" DVD series, and at about 9 months is when it sugg...

EvanG

Neil wrote:TT

Any model with a tube-style transmitter. Will it be cheapest? No. Will it be worth it? Yes it will...in cost as well as performance.

EvanG

EvanG

Hi all, I am about to pick up a Brittany pup in a couple of weeks and will be training her to do a little hunting. She will be primarily a house pet and not a hard core hunter. My question is are E-Collars really necessary for adequate training? What did people do before E-Collars were around? My d...

EvanG

I'll answer the question "Are E-Collars really necessary?" with another question- "Are cars really necessary?" I mean, you can get where you want to go without a car, it will just take a little more time, be a little more arduous & much less efficient. Same thing with e-collars, you can train a hun...

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