Gun Dog Forum

SCT

shags wrote:Sorry but the shorthairs aren't the be all end all. I'm more interested in what the pointer setter guys feed. Most I know feed PPP.

True!

SCT

Hi Bill, since we talked about it I joined a raw feeders group on FB and watched every post on there. I was surprised at how many weird ailments popped up. Some seemed to be unexplainable. That was strike number one. Strike two came with amount of work, time, expense, and freezer space it took for ...

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Thanks, this is a great article. But, it really is talking about the extreme side of running performance. "Sprinting" sled dogs covering 100 miles a day for 4-5 days is extreme. For pointing dogs on a week long trip averaging 35 miles a day would be considered pushing it. And, the statement about s...

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Hi Bill, since we talked about it I joined a raw feeders group on FB and watched every post on there. I was surprised at how many weird ailments popped up. Some seemed to be unexplainable. That was strike number one. Strike two came with amount of work, time, expense, and freezer space it took for l...

SCT

I wonder where diminishing returns start on the level of fat vs protein?? Why doesn't anyone produce a food that is higher fat than protein like a 25/35 or something? Must be a loss of benefits somewhere along the way. Obviously the stools would be a problem;-) Because once a long term diet gets ov...

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I wonder where diminishing returns start on the level of fat vs protein?? Why doesn't anyone produce a food that is higher fat than protein like a 25/35 or something? Must be a loss of benefits somewhere along the way. Obviously the stools would be a problem;-)

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Saw this on another social media and even though it's 13 years old I thought it went along well with what others have posted here. Sometimes through the arguments the quality of the whole program is lost, so being able to copy this explanation makes it easier for me. Note: the Dr. in the interview i...

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I've got a female pointer that is going through the breaking process and entering her first broke dog stake tomorrow at 16 months old. She loves to learn and handles the e-collar training well because her trainer is extremely well skilled at his job. Many training systems will work on bird dogs of ...

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Your first dog was an un-trainable and uncontrollable pointer, yet the modern dogs are more dog? Shags pointed out that many dogs are finished and some titled by two years rather than 3-4 years old. Part of the reason imo is because the dogs are more intelligent and trainable now than in the past. O...

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Beautiful! Got a new pointer litter on the ground myself and can appreciate!

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I though glycogen, once stored, is the same regardless of the source of protein ingested. Also, isn't glycogen the last thing depleted and aren't reserves of it likely to last well past one strenuous workout?? I would be interested in the sled dog study showing abilities to make glycogen last, rathe...

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shags wrote:More males entered because the dang females seem to come in season right in time for trials. Then, the good ones get bred and don't get run.

That too. I've missed a couple trials because of heat cycles!

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I think they (males) are entered more in trials because a big male can handle the really thick, tall grass on the prairies better, as well as the heavy mud of the south. Having said that, I think it depends on the dog. I watched (from horseback) my young pointer bitch running with two older male poi...

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Trekmoor wrote:
I replied that I did exactly the opposite to him..... I don't train a dog to stop until it has trained itself to "go." Sometimes that works well for me and sometimes it does not. My dogs are usually right on the edge of "control."

Bill T.

Exactly how I do it!

SCT

I feed raw chicken necks to pups over 12 weeks of age occasionally. I want them to know how to take care of such things at a young age. Otherwise, when they're older they might gulp one rather than chew it. I feed them to all my dogs occasionally to help with teeth cleaning.

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I sent a 13 month old with a well known pro to ND this summer, cost me $1250, best money I've ever spent. She's now in KY being broke! I'll send another pup with him next summer if all works out.

Just no way to beat the exercise and bird experience they get!

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My 7 month old pup pointing sage grouse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIPUs47Ng7s

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Here's what breeding to the extremes can produce.

pug skull

But not for function. Function is most important, especially for working dogs.

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Shags, Should have been clearer, I was speaking only about the Brittany. There is not much you can do with the wicket to make a 20 and 1/2" dog enough bigger to make a difference. Some try to finish them in the ring before they are fully grown. But you are right, it is a problem not shared by the o...

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Here's my pup learning the ropes on sage grouse!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIPUs47Ng7s

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I just finished Algonquin and found it to be a great read, although sad like Old Yeller. Loved his description of the All Age pointer. Thanks Sharon for the recommendation!

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Actually size does matter! Ask any winning sled dog guy/gal why his/her dogs fit into certain size parameters. Heat affects bigger dogs more than smaller dogs, but the smaller dogs can't pull as much so the sled doggers' dogs fit a certain niche'.

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Pup looks good. A lot of pups will hold pretty well when young but many times they will loosen up as they get older. Seems most have to go through a period where they decide they can catch the bird so be aware I have no delusions about sophomore slumps, I just posted it as an example of what natura...

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Robert, I think before we go any further though we have to decide the definition of "good breeding". 'one man's cloth' ? I agree, but ..the 'theme' on the thread is 'Breeding' ?..and 'Breeding' get's the results ?..But what results? and to whom or who ?.. Give me a Field trial champion and I'll rui...

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I took it as meaning a dog with a lot of "point", and that can definitely be breeding. But, it's up the owner to get that natural bred pointer into enough wild birds for the point to develop....IMO So it's not Just 'Breeding' then ? ..and even it was ,It's just 'Point' ?...Not 'Steadiness' ? ....So...

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I took it as meaning a dog with a lot of "point", and that can definitely be breeding. But, it's up the owner to get that natural bred pointer into enough wild birds for the point to develop....IMO

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Now when it comes to pointing and steadiness I leave that up to its breeding...I def don't go out in the field with a cc trying to train the dog to point!! That's the wild birds job, if the dog can't figure it out by the second season on wild birds then some lucky family will have a free well train...

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I think we just need an objective respondent to give the touted raw diet a go. I (or my dogs) may be that guinea pig, just don't know that I'm ready to try it with a pregnant bitch. It may take a couple of months, but I've been wanting to try the other side for several years. Probably will wait unti...

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Bill, I would try it, but no one can offer a realistic recipe that I can trust or afford. And when I say afford I'm including my time. I talked to a leading raw food veterinarian researcher through email, and posted her findings here a year or two ago. With all of her testing and research she was no...

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I am only concerned that my dog is maintaining weight, has lots of energy, and their stools are small and tight confirming that the particular food is being well digested. I believe Purina when they tell me there is 30% protein and 20% fat and not too concerned if their secondary form of protein is ...

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I would just like to know where to get the frozen sardines from as I might replace the raw chicken necks with them!

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Sharon wrote:"Algonquin " by D Henderson... 1953

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1649058.Algonquin

Thanks for the recommendation;-) I just ordered it, had not heard about it before!

Steve

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I like Pro Plan and am feeding it now. I also like Nutrisource and Diamond Naturals and doubt you can go wrong with those brands. Nice to hear the Pro Plan testimonial about the 15 year old Neil. I will change a bit when a litter is born, but really don't need to. I just mix it up a bit occasionally...

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I also wonder about the age of sled dogs? How old do they usually get? I don't know how much kibble they feed, but I've seen where the guys with sled dogs cook up a stew with salmon and whatever. Seems like a main diet once the salmon are available, which is when their racing season is beginning! St...

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I agree with ezzy, that corn seems to be a really good carb, but only from my own observations. I wonder if it doesn't make the dogs run a bit hotter though??? Meaning, are their organs working a bit more to regulate the intake of it? Or, is raw meat and bone easier for their system?? I am feeding P...

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I wonder if grains or corn are really that bad for our dogs? From what the old timers tell me dogs used to live longer and they got a lot more grains and corn back then didn't they?? My chicken necks have skin and fat also, all raw! The skin also has some good nutrients. The occasional feeding my do...

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Well, sugar definitely makes humans crash, I know that much! Really then no real boost is needed in your opinion after a hard workout except maybe a chicken neck or something similar? I've never used Malto so it's not likely I will use it in the future, but I do feed my dogs chicken necks, often ins...

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This is a good debate with good information, but I'm beginning to think my method of feeding the dog his/her regular high energy meal at the end of the day will be sufficient. Possibly adding some Maltodextrin immediately after the workout if it's an extra effort. My (and my dogs) hunting regimen wo...

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My 5 month old pointer pup retrieved a wounded pigeon from 150 yards yesterday. All natural. All my pups do it naturally. He ran at top speed to get back to me to show his prize. Never harmed the bird either! However, if you want a bird dog of any breed to return retrieved bird to hand in a perfect ...

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Unfortunately this will devastate the sage brush environment and sage grouse population. The reason is cheat grass, a fairly new inhabitant and when sage is burned the cheat grass takes over making it impossible for the sage brush to ever be the beautiful source of life it was for eons of time. It's...

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Why would he be more likely to get bloat, compared to a dog that eats his meal in 10 minutes rather than one? Any good trainer knows to feed the dogs after training so they have time to do some digesting. I add water to all my dogs main meals to the level of the food. I've got a female (pointer) tha...

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Summer is death to a dog's nose. It can be 'the making of it' ? Yes it can, and even though these two videos show a dog on a pigeon, if I had wild birds here that didn't live in rattlesnake country I'd work him there. The scent was on the deck with very little movement. This is my 5 month old pup. ...

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I have a question for you breeders or others that have had a lot of dogs. I keep puppy growth charts on all the pups I raise and keep, but don't have enough to make an educated guess! Is there data proving that the male puppies grow longer than females? I have the impression from what I've seen that...

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Great observations Gertie. I have a female pointer that runs like you described where she digs in with her front feet, but she also has a powerful hind end, and is the fastest and smoothest dog I've ever seen run. Interestingly, her full sister (from different litters), has a slightly different conf...

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Interesting you didn't mention the flag in original post. Any smart dog will see the slightest cue. I tried that one time and never did it again. Take the dog out on wild birds and leave the pigeons home.

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It is a genetic trait and caused by breeding for a high tail! AF field trialers consider a high tailed dog while running to be classy and breed for it. There is a fine line between "not enough tail" and "too much tail" and that hooked tail is unfortunately, a product of "over breeding. I have a youn...

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tobytx wrote:I think most people get confused about cooperation vs obedience.

+1

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Yes, a lack of cooperation can be masked with training to some extent. Depends on the level of drive and athleticism in the dog. If the dog has the physical ability and mental aptitude to carry it 600 plus yards in the search for game you are going to need something more than just training going fo...

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Would "nurturing drive" include keeping "cooperation" in tact? I think it should. In my beginning post - the more drive you have, the more cooperation you need for the dog to be useful. IME it seems most people's idea of nurturing cooperation is diminishing drive. I agree with your experience! My g...

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Would "nurturing drive" include keeping "cooperation" in tact? I think it should.

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